Police Shoot Protesters and Children

[quannum]

...with non-lethal projectiles and pepper spray balls...you know, the things they usually use to control violent crowds who are throwing rocks and bricks. But that doesn't sound as good.

the term is less-lethal and majority of the violence came from the police.

[hey]

Then it shouldn't be too hard to find some articles about all the innocent protesters killed by those bean bag rounds and pepper spray bullets recently. Since police unloaded on them and it happens "all the time".

You don't want to get hit with a bean bag round? Don't attend a protest where people are throwing bricks at cops. Bricks kill people all the time.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violen...sticbullet.htm
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3277/...thletic-bilbao
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/08...s-in-the-past/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...h-2360925.html
http://www.policeone.com/less-lethal...ean-Bag-Round/
http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/man-pe...-police-custod
http://neurobonkers.com/2011/11/22/p...cocaine-death/
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-06-...y-manufacturer

[Salodin]

Guess that wasn't too hard at all lmfao

[Gregorio]

~20 since 1975 = "All the time". Gotcha.

First, people complain about police using tazers instead of non-lethal rounds, now complaining about using non-lethal rounds in a situation where nobody was really injured. What are police supposed to do vs. violent crowds? "Pretty please don't push that burning dumpster into the road...or throw that rock at me" doesn't work.

and majority of the violence came from the police.

Where did you base that off of?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...dDX_story.html

The shootings prompted four days of violent protests, culminating Tuesday night in hundreds of demonstrators surging through downtown streets. Police said some in the crowd smashed the windows of 20 businesses, set trash can fires, threw rocks and bottles at police and damaged City Hall and police headquarters. Two dozen people were arrested.

Fucking cops smashing local business' windows and setting fires. Violent assholes.

[hey]

~20 since 1975 = "All the time". Gotcha.

Man, why did i even bother linking all that if you weren't going to read it?

Pepper spray alone killed at least 61 people from 1990-1995.

[Gregorio]

I'm sorry I missed two lines in the last of all the links you posted. You weakened your point by listing a bunch of websites noting Irish deaths from the 70s. Regardless, it's still an extremely small percentage of the population. You're making it sound like people die daily from this shit when that isn't anywhere near the case.

Anything a police officer can do to someone can result in a death. Tazing, pepper spraying, pushing, tacking, hitting, shooting, whatever. What would you suggest police do when encountering violent people or crowds?

[hey]

You weakened your point by listing a bunch of websites noting Irish deaths from the 70s.

I don't see how. My point is that these "non-lethal" weapons kill people relatively often. An average of 1 death per year over 17 years in a tiny little country of a few million people seems pretty damning to me.

Regardless, it's still an extremely small percentage of the population.

Obviously? I don't think most people are ever shot with rubber bullets, beanbags, or pepper sprayed by police.

You're making it sound like people die daily from this shit when that isn't anywhere near the case.

I'm not sure why you would think that.

Anything a police officer can do to someone can result in a death. Tazing, pepper spraying, pushing, tacking, hitting, shooting, whatever. What would you suggest police do when encountering violent people or crowds?

I don't know? I never claimed they shouldn't be used, just that your insinuation that "non-lethal projectiles" are not lethal is bullshit.

[Gregorio]

I'm not sure why you would think that.

"ALL THE TIME". You're grossly exaggerating. Relatively often isn't even accurate. Once a year is nowhere near often. Shark attacks happen way more often, and you'd be an idiot to claim that people are attacked by sharks all the time.

I don't know? I never claimed they shouldn't be used, just that your insinuation that "non-lethal projectiles" are not lethal is bullshit.

And while you're building a nice strawman, I never claimed that non-lethal projectiles can not be lethal. The name isn't never-ever-lethal. "Non-lethal" and "less-than-lethal" are both accepted names for the type of ammunition, if that's why you're complaining.

[hey]

Once a year is nowhere near often.

It kind of is in a tiny country of a few million people. But hey, there you go ignoring most of what i say, and just arguing against the easiest things you can. We also had about one death per month in the usa just from pepper spray from 1990-1995.

Spoiler: show

inb4 you say 1 death per month isn't that much either, as if that was the total amount of people who died from rubber bullets, pepper spray, and beanbags

I never claimed that non-lethal projectiles can not be lethal.

...with non-lethal projectiles and pepper spray balls...you know, the things they usually use to control violent crowds

Sure sounds like you were saying it's no big deal.

"Non-lethal" and "less-than-lethal" are both accepted names for the type of ammunition,

No, neither of these are acceptable names. Both indicate they are not lethal, which is a lie. "less lethal" would be a start.

[Salodin]

in one of the jackass movies, they shot a bean bag at johnny knox, didn't the guy call it less lethal? I can't remember.

[NynJa]

My point is that these "non-lethal" weapons kill people relatively often.

If I throw a punch at you and it connects, its probably not going to be lethal. If I catch you in the right spot (temple, throat, side of the ribs), theres a chance it can be fatal. Does that mean all of a sudden my punches are considered fatal? Fuck no!

in one of the jackass movies, they shot a bean bag at johnny knox, didn't the guy call it less lethal? I can't remember.

Its another way of saying its dangerous if it catches you in the wrong spot. A bean bag can connect with a spot that will not wind up fatal whereas taking a bullet there is more likely to be fatal. Hence: less-lethal.

[hey]

Does that mean all of a sudden my punches are considered fatal?

If they are done in a way, and with enough power to kill someone, yes. Otherwise, no. However, your fists are still a lethal weapon.

The same argument can be made for a shotgun. Not all shots are fatal, but the weapon is still considered lethal.

Also, i'll forgive you, since english isn't your first language, but fatal and lethal are not the same words.

[NynJa]

Also, i'll forgive you, since english isn't your first language, but fatal and lethal are not the same words.

http://m.dictionary.com/d/?q=lethal&o=0&l=dir

adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or causing death; deadly; fatal: a lethal weapon; a lethal dose.
2. made to cause death: a lethal chamber; a lethal attack.

Esti de conard, crisse de pute. If youre going to try to take potshots at my quebecois background (protip: im english), make sure you know what the fuck youre talking about and i dont make you look like a total shitforbrains.

Ive never eeever seen anyone troll so poorly.

[hey]

http://m.dictionary.com/d/?q=lethal&o=0&l=dir

adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or causing death; deadly; fatal: a lethal weapon; a lethal dose.
2. made to cause death: a lethal chamber; a lethal attack.

Esti de conard, fucking dumb shit, crisse de pute.

Yes, that is correct. They still aren't the same word. Just because something isn't fatal, does not necessarily mean it's not lethal.

For example, if i shoot you with a canon, and don't kill you, the attack was not fatal, but certainly the canon is still lethal.

[Gregorio]

It kind of is in a tiny country of a few million people. But hey, there you go ignoring most of what i say, and just arguing against the easiest things you can. We also had about one death per month in the usa just from pepper spray from 1990-1995.

Spoiler: show

inb4 you say 1 death per month isn't that much either, as if that was the total amount of people who died from rubber bullets, pepper spray, and beanbags

Sure sounds like you were saying it's no big deal.
No, neither of these are acceptable names. Both indicate they are not lethal, which is a lie. "less lethal" would be a start.

It IS no big deal. Violent crowd results in police deploying widely accepted crowd control devices (where nobody was injured) turns into "Police shoot protesters and children!" or "police open fire on a crowd of unarmed people." One is what actually happened, and two are sensationalizing it to make it seem like what it isn't. Just as you're sensationalizing shit by making it sound like people are dieing from pepper spray and bean bag rounds every time there is a protest.

And are you seriously making an argument about the appropriate name for what the type of ammunition is generally called by the people who manufacture it? Get the fuck out of here.

[hey]

And are you seriously making an argument about the appropriate name for what the type of ammunition is generally called by the people who manufacture it?

Yes. It's not non-lethal.

[Eurell]

But thats still what its called lol, which is all gregorio was saying.

[jmc]

Just browsing through the thread...... and wanted to say rubber bullets are classified as "non-lethal" weapons by the department of defense, and the department of justice.

Can't get any more official in a term that from those two departments.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I need the government telling me what to do with my life and what's "non-lethal"

[jmc]

I need the government telling me what to do with my life and what's "non-lethal"

Heh

Just saying the "official" term drafted by the government, and weapon manufacturer are nonlethal.

Even though there are cases of the weapon itself killing people, so I fully understand why they should be called less lethal.