Naoki Yoshida at Gamescom/A Realm Reborn presentations

[Elcura]

OPINION

Wow, no shit. Did you just figure that out? Sorry, maybe I should preface all my opinion posts with a giant label so you don't get confused again.

[xopher]

It's hilarious watching you people get personally offended when someone disagrees with you.

[LD]

I was in Prague at an "Ethics in Biological Sciences" summit discussing that very same subject with your mother last night.

[Sup3rB4d]

Wow, no shit. Did you just figure that out? Sorry, maybe I should preface all my opinion posts with a giant label so you don't get confused again.

I was essentially being nice and clarifying that in the end it still boils down to opinion no matter how idiotic that opinion may be.(mainly to myself, probably shouldn't have posted). The conversation wasn't really about opinions though it was about absolutes like "MNK isn't fun and can never be fun because not doing anything isn't fun" which is understandable considering I'd assume anyone that enjoys monk has some sort of handicap and that's fast action gaming for their brain. People were presenting evidence/reasoning behind why certain classes were fun/boring instead of just liking them because they like them. You came in and said herp derp ninja is fun without really saying anything else. My post was mainly directed at myself reminding me that I shouldn't be thinking you're retarded and instead embrace the fact that you actually enjoy counting to 4/3 and pressing the same button over and over while standing still.

[Deadgye]

THF was fun, but SATA WS isn't exactly a complex thing. You hit a couple of abilities and WS and then for the most part you don't (or can't) do much. Regular melee DD pacing and boredom sets in.

You didn't play thief did you? Or at least you didn't play it seriously.

If the pacing was any faster I wouldn't have had enough time to do anything. I'm going to reassert that the pacing was perfectly fine for most jobs near endgame. Any problems with being bored was most likely a fault of the class. Faster isn't always better too. Whenever I think about faster pacing I think of my friend playing ranger in WoW and how he just spams 4 binds or something so that they fire asap whenever their cooldown is done. That's not fun, that's just mindless bashing.

Pacing is a complex thing though. FFXI pacing was too slow for the first half of the game since you don't have all your abilities yet. Making it so that pacing feels right throughout the entire game would be a pretty hard thing to do.

[Gokulo]

Dunno if real of course:

Haven't gone through the thread but in case no one has translated what was said, the books will be physically thrown at the monsters, according to Matsui san and Yoship.

[LD]

.....ffffffuck. Yes.


If it isn't real it needs to be.

[vadre]

I'm liking the fact that they appear to be adding missile-type spells and some travel time for abilities. It always looked kind of stupid that there was no arrow for rangers so hopefully they'll add that too. I'm basing this off the fact that the thunder-based spell forms a little ball of lightning which travels to the enemy in the latest trailer.

Also, considering they're trying to add that aggro indicator from FF12 as an option (the little red arcing beam), it obviously means that they're working on that pissy coding where all abilities currently in FFXI and XIV have no contact from the caster to the receiver, it's just one effect on the caster and a response on the receiver.

[Gokulo]

I'm basing this off the fact that the thunder-based spell forms a little ball of lightning which travels to the enemy in the latest trailer.

Yeah, one of the jp devs event confirmed that in one of the comments.

[Alkar]

Does that mean Arcanist/Summoner will be ranged attackers (i.e. you can Auto-attack like Archer/Bard) or is it just a way to confirm that books will actually be weapons and not like in XI?
If it's the former maybe other mages will get a similar adjustment (something like Spirit Dart) and some weapon skills?

[Gokulo]

The latter for sure (although I don't think that needed to be confirmed), but no info yet to say if also the former.

[Elcura]

I was essentially being nice and clarifying that in the end it still boils down to opinion no matter how idiotic that opinion may be.(mainly to myself, probably shouldn't have posted).

Wait, you thought you were being nice? OK.

The conversation wasn't really about opinions though it was about absolutes like "MNK isn't fun and can never be fun because not doing anything isn't fun" which is understandable considering I'd assume anyone that enjoys monk has some sort of handicap and that's fast action gaming for their brain.

Erm, the conversation was always opinion based. No one here can claim what they're saying is factual. If you thought otherwise then... well I don't know what to tell you (other than I think it's hilarious you think other people are idiotic).

People were presenting evidence/reasoning behind why certain classes were fun/boring instead of just liking them because they like them. You came in and said herp derp ninja is fun without really saying anything else. My post was mainly directed at myself reminding me that I shouldn't be thinking you're retarded and instead embrace the fact that you actually enjoy counting to 4/3 and pressing the same button over and over while standing still.

No matter how people present their opinions, they're still just...opinions! Why am I explaining this to you? Your post was directed at yourself? Jesus could you any harder?

NIN was fun because you had to pay attention. If you didn't you sucked ass, died and the party suffered. Some enemies were easy to tank (not as much fun), other enemies were hard. But tanking was always more fun than just dealing damage because you have to focus, especially when you didn't have someone doing TA/WS on you and you need to keep hate doing debuffs, elemental cycle, abilities and WS. NIN keeps you busy on shit worth fighting, and more than that, you feel like a boss tanking big shit and it never touching you but also that tension involved where if the boss hits you death is coming.

Do I have to label this post as well?

You didn't play thief did you? Or at least you didn't play it seriously.

If the pacing was any faster I wouldn't have had enough time to do anything. I'm going to reassert that the pacing was perfectly fine for most jobs near endgame. Any problems with being bored was most likely a fault of the class. Faster isn't always better too. Whenever I think about faster pacing I think of my friend playing ranger in WoW and how he just spams 4 binds or something so that they fire asap whenever their cooldown is done. That's not fun, that's just mindless bashing.

Pacing is a complex thing though. FFXI pacing was too slow for the first half of the game since you don't have all your abilities yet. Making it so that pacing feels right throughout the entire game would be a pretty hard thing to do.

Pacing is complex, but the job design for the most part didn't help because only a few jobs felt like they actually had to be played and not just cruise controlled in the right direction. I didn't play THF seriously but you haven't told me why THF is more than what I boiled it down to (SA/TA WS - build TP - repeat). Anything else is on too long a cool down timer to make a difference to pacing. But again, I didn't play THF at endgame and I can't imagine them doing more than that (also not beyond the 75 cap, which is when I quit).

[Gokulo]

JP dev confirmed that already existing characters will be able to receive the Moogle Earring by talking to an npc (probably the delivery moogle, lol). No idea if they will do the same for the previous code items.

[Mina]

So when I throw the book, does the enemy hand it back to me or does the book magically float back to my hands? :D Maybe I have a string around it and I drag it back to me.

Yay moogle earring! It looks cute. Did they release what it does yet? (I've been looking, don't see anything but maybe I missed a JP post about it)

Also: When I played THF it was a lot of gear swapping(ta set, sa set, sata set, hide+, eva set, haste, acc, ws1, ws2, rangedacc set), a lot of SA+skill TA+skill, bolts, and the occasional steal. I liked it better than playing most other of the melee classes since I got to pivot around the mob and pull. Since THF was typically the puller knowing when to use these skills and when to pull was pretty cool. A lot of moving around and you get praised for being good at it. I wasn't so good on getting the pulls right until much later and by then... lolabyssea.

[TacoTaru]

JP dev confirmed that already existing characters will be able to receive the Moogle Earring by talking to an npc (probably the delivery moogle, lol). No idea if they will do the same for the previous code items.

Now if only they'd make a way for other people besides JP players to get the damn code ~_~.

[Deadgye]

Pacing is complex, but the job design for the most part didn't help because only a few jobs felt like they actually had to be played and not just cruise controlled in the right direction. I didn't play THF seriously but you haven't told me why THF is more than what I boiled it down to (SA/TA WS - build TP - repeat). Anything else is on too long a cool down timer to make a difference to pacing. But again, I didn't play THF at endgame and I can't imagine them doing more than that (also not beyond the 75 cap, which is when I quit).

Yeah, I definitely agree that pacing just wasn't right for some other classes. As for thief at ending at 75cap there was always plenty for me to do. In a merit party I would constantly be doing the following things: Feint every ~2 minutes, Collaborator every now and then (1m timer), Hide every now and then if the enemy allowed for it, TAWS or SAWS whenever possible, solo WS if neither were up when I got tp, Solo SA or TA if my tp was low, steal whenever the enemy put up a decent or annoying buff, Utsusemi Ichi/Ni if I was /nin or berserk and warcry if I was /war.

It may not seem like a lot on paper, but I was always doing something. My tp gain rate was also always pretty high. A triple attack rate of 10~11%, a double attack rate of 5%, 18~22% haste, and a (178+150)*.8 delay or 178 delay w/ +10% DA.

In more important fights it was even more hectic, if the linkshell decided to use me properly that is. For example when we'd fight Odin and they were smart and put me in the ranger party and I had a bard. I'd be doing most of the above, but I'd have to actually worry about dieing, making sure I trick onto the right person, making sure I'm using collaborator every 1m on the right people. Hell if the tank went down, or if his hate took a large hit, I'd sometimes end up taking for a minute lol.

[Lucavi]

Now if only they'd make a way for other people besides JP players to get the damn code ~_~.

Silly non-JP; this game was built for us, by us. You westerners (IE: anyone else, even China) should be lucky we're letting you play.

@Deadgye: for the time, perhaps that was a lot to do, given the delay on abilities and massive, long cooldowns, but not anymore. For MMOs today, XI's 2hr is today's 180 second elite skill.

[Spider-Dan]

Man, you were playing COR all wrong.

I guess things have changed but at 75 cap COR DDing in a merit party with a joyeuse was a blast (no pun...actually, yes pun, why not).

Word. COR/DNC, in particular, had plenty of things to do (erase DDs when roared, cure BRD or RDM if they get lullabied, box step when you have >110TP, desperate flourish when you have 4+ FMs, plus all your normal melee DDing/roll timers/light shot on Dia).

I still believe that meriting on birds at 75 was the best thing XI ever offered. It was the one activity where effort and reward had a nearly limitless ceiling.

[Alkar]

Word. COR/DNC, in particular, had plenty of things to do (erase DDs when roared, cure BRD or RDM if they get lullabied, box step when you have >110TP, desperate flourish when you have 4+ FMs, plus all your normal melee DDing/roll timers/light shot on Dia).

I still believe that meriting on birds at 75 was the best thing XI ever offered. It was the one activity where effort and reward had a nearly limitless ceiling.

Hell no.

[Fievel]

and now this thread is about colibri.