Is/n't Tesla literally/figuratively crashing?

[Salodin]

I get the feeling that Salodin also bitches about the horrible inconvenience of having to pull up to the correct side of the gas pump because the hose may not be long enough to reach across his car. Really? An extension cord is your argument against electric cars and their range limitations?

Give it time. It will happen. Charging stations will be just as common as gas stations except they will be in convenient places like grocery stores, hotels, downtown/roadside (like pay stations for street parking), in most homes, restaurants, etc. There are already charging stations at most of the stores in my neighborhood. Soon the gas stations will figure out a way to charge $ for electricity and put pay-to-use charging stations in place.

Apparently you gloss over everything except what helps your point, or at the least just forget about it when you hit the reply button.

My argument isn't about extension cords, it's about time required to charge outside of quick charge stations (which still aren't as fast as fossil fuel stations, on top of not having fossil fuel range). The biggest complaint however is the lack of stations in areas where having access to an outlet (even 120v) isn't possible. But go ahead, keep comparing the inconvenience of a handful of quick charge stations per state to the inconvenience of driving to the other side of a pump (assuming the hose doesn't reach). Or better yet, compare it to the hours required to slow charge at a regular outlet just to get the equivalent of one tank of gas.

[archibaldcrane]

You're right that there are circumstances for some where an electric vehicle would be a pain. However, if you park your car in your garage 99 percent of your nights, and live somewhere well serviced by the SC network (like California) it's nearly a zero downside situation. Anywhere I drive from LA (SF, Santa Barbara, Paso Robles, San Diego, Vegas) are trivial to reach via Supercharging with the new rollout. Many people in high population centers will feel the same way. Anywhere further I fly.

[archibaldcrane]

The other thing is, until you drive a Model S, it's a bit hard to explain how amazing the instant torque, single gear, silent drive feels compared to anything else out there.

[AoE]

induction charging will be the killer app for electric cars

under the road
http://machinedesign.com/site-files/...ing_scheme.jpg

parking lot
http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn....ev4-580-75.jpg

http://mimg.ugo.com/201010/63108/power17.jpg

[Salodin]

The other thing is, until you drive a Model S, it's a bit hard to explain how amazing the instant torque, single gear, silent drive feels compared to anything else out there.

Oh I believe you. I'm excited for the car, even with its limitations that I pointed out.
Like I said before, I like the car, but no way would I take it cross country over a fossil fuel vehicle/hybrid that I'd probably already own. I'm just not comfortable with that few a number of charging stations, even if it would save me a few hundred bucks.

[Plow]

You're right that there are circumstances for some where an electric vehicle would be a pain. However, if you park your car in your garage 99 percent of your nights, and live somewhere well serviced by the SC network (like California) it's nearly a zero downside situation.

Bolded is the whole point of this that people don't seem to be realizing. They've made a great car, but it still has downsides. The SC network is a massive step in eliminating the biggest one.

The other thing is, until you drive a Model S, it's a bit hard to explain how amazing the instant torque, single gear, silent drive feels compared to anything else out there.

Ehh it's pretty impressive, and I'm sure it's a hell of a drive... but it's nothing like what you can get in a legit sports car in that price range. Not to mention in terms of sedans the new M5 going back to a v8 and adding twin turbo has it blowing away the high end tesla at high revs and right on par for low end torque... plus that whole thing where flooring it doesn't drop your driving range to an hour or so.

[archibaldcrane]

Is the new M5 sedan a sub-4 0-60? Serious question.

[Plow]

i wanna say 4.2


edit: yeah, right in there, bmw does km so it's 4.4 to 62.5 or whatever

[Salodin]

plus that whole thing where flooring it doesn't drop your driving range to an hour or so.

Is this true?

[Plow]

meanwhile you can get the new shelby that tops 200mph and does 0-60 in 3.5 for 50k

[Plow]

Is this true?

napkin math, on the one that does 0-60 in 4.4:
85kWh
full throttle it's putting out 310kW

so... full throttle it'll last... .27 of an hour? a bit over 15 minutes >.>

that can't be right, any electrical engineers around here lol?

[Salodin]

Well... Yes, if you want a legit sports car there are better. But am I the only one who looks at this car as the next gen electric car and not a sports car?

[Plow]

Well... Yes, if you want a legit sports car there are better. But am I the only one who looks at this car as the next gen electric car and not a sports car?

Kind of. The performance models are sports sedans, so their direct competition is the m5, not the m3 or vettes, stangs, etc. Just pointing out that while it's good for what it is, it's not, in fact, an actual "sports car."

[archibaldcrane]

Is this true?

Anything that effects mpg (range) in a gas car affects range in an electric car too.

[Salodin]

Anything that effects mpg (range) in a gas car affects range in an electric car too.

Didn't you say weight had a negligible effect?

[archibaldcrane]

Didn't you say weight had a negligible effect?

At freeway speeds, the additional weight from passengers/gear is minor compared to the wind resistance (especially for a 5000+ lb. car like the Model S). I think it's something like 85% wind resistance, 15% rolling resistance at 65mph for the Model S, but don't quote me on that.

People just think that it's a new thing for, say, how hard you accelerate to affect range in an electric car, while it's been affecting your range on a tank of gas since the automobile was invented.

[Plow]

At freeway speeds, the additional weight from passengers/gear is minor compared to the wind resistance (especially for a 5000+ lb. car like the Model S). I think it's something like 85% wind resistance, 15% rolling resistance at 65mph for the Model S, but don't quote me on that.

People just think that it's a new thing for, say, how hard you accelerate to affect range in an electric car, while it's been affecting your range on a tank of gas since the automobile was invented.

I assure you I've always been aware of acceleration's effect on gas mileage.

It's just pretty damn hard to get a street legal gas car to burn its full tank in 15 minutes lol.

[archibaldcrane]

I dunno how long the MS lasts if you get on a track, put your foot down and turn, although that's a pretty ridiculous scenario.

[Avinor]

I assure you I've always been aware of acceleration's effect on gas mileage.

It's just pretty damn hard to get a street legal gas car to burn its full tank in 15 minutes lol.

Based on the Top Gear test a Veyron's tank lasts 12 minutes at full throttle, so its entirely possible. The point is you're never on full throttle for more than a few seconds at a time, so the 'how fast can I completely empty my energy reserve' isn't a relevant metric. Electrics certainly aren't for everyone (even if price wasn't a factor) but there are a massive number of motorists who go for years without driving more than 100 miles in a day. People who have massive, irregular commutes or frequent road trips will continue to ignore battery electrics, but fixed commuters and multi-car households can weigh the pros and cons of getting an electric. I think if people looked closely at their day-by-day usage they might be surprised at the ranges they end up needing.

[Plow]

I don't know how engine braking works with these things, but if you're out driving for fun it's not hard to get 15 minutes worth of full throttle.

Most cars, even sports cars, will require a couple minutes of full throttle to reach top speed.

The GT500 I mentioned earlier, for example, takes 11 seconds to do a quarter mile at 125... and it's got 75+ mph of the hardest part left to go. It takes another 8 seconds from there to hit 160.


Coming down to earth and looking at stuff like a mid-90's 300z or whatever, you're talking 100mph in 15 seconds or so, and a good couple minutes to approach 150+.