Is/n't Tesla literally/figuratively crashing?

[Fondue]

more unnecessary tax breaks for the wealthy smh

[Gryffes]

Dealer markups gonna be oooh about $12k.

[archibaldcrane]

more unnecessary tax breaks for the wealthy smh

hey there's still an income cutoff

at 400k/individual, 800k/married...

[Yabby]

What low-income person can buy a new EV(Or any car) right now anyways? Or even the cost of upgrading your home to support a car like that.

[kuronosan]

Dealer markups gonna be oooh about $12k.

The funny thing is this is the kind of shit that is wrong with society, imo.

These credits and incentives, like CARES or this particular break, are designed to help people who can't afford them and yet sellers just raise their prices so they can make even more money off of shit people already can't afford without the credit.

Like, what's the point? It's like those shithead companies that said if you took the tax credit for COVID they would dock your pay since you didn't need the paycheck.

Stupid fucks.

[Jaybar]

Was really interested in the ebike incentives and sounds like they got gutted cuz we gotta make more vroom vroom cars.

[Andalusian girls]

The funny thing is this is the kind of shit that is wrong with society, imo.

These credits and incentives, like CARES or this particular break, are designed to help people who can't afford them and yet sellers just raise their prices so they can make even more money off of shit people already can't afford without the credit.

Like, what's the point? It's like those shithead companies that said if you took the tax credit for COVID they would dock your pay since you didn't need the paycheck.

Stupid fucks.

Dealer markups gonna be oooh about $12k.

cynical but not especially wise takes. market share is the #1 concern in the EV market at the moment (which is typical of industries experiencing and projected to continue exponential growth) and all non-Tesla car manufacturers are aggressively aiming to undercut one another, particularly seeking to unseat Tesla's domestic near-monopoly. they are using every tool they have to come at Tesla at the moment, and it is extremely unlikely they will pursue short-term profit gauging at the cost of solidifying Tesla's market dominance. we've seen the exact undercut model followed abroad as Volkswagen and Renault have both smashed Tesla in Europe by offering down-scaled EVs for drastically cheaper.

Tesla, owning 70ish% of the American EV market, is in a different boat. they've been aggressively raising prices of late, even following the expiration of the current tax rebate (it only applying to the first 200,000 vehicles of a given manufacturer; a figure they passed long ago), and demand is yet to abate. with Ford, GM, Audi, Volkswagen, et al aiming their guns directly at them that may change, and Tesla may well exploit the new rebate to lower costs or at least stop their price hikes. if they use it only to run up profit margins as their vehicles get undercut at every turn by multiple competitors it would be a textbook instance of corporate mismanagement.

Tesla is no longer the first, no longer the onlylest, and given Renault and Volkswagon are beating the shit out of them in Europe they better start acting like it. rules of the game are a changing now that they have to face real competitors in an open market space.

[Deejay]

i cant speak on eu, but teslas charging network is still a few notches above the rest in the states. they can easily get away with doing whatever they want so long as that remains true

[archibaldcrane]

cynical but not especially wise takes. market share is the #1 concern in the EV market at the moment (which is typical of industries experiencing and projected to continue exponential growth) and all non-Tesla car manufacturers are aggressively aiming to undercut one another, particularly seeking to unseat Tesla's domestic near-monopoly. they are using every tool they have to come at Tesla at the moment, and it is extremely unlikely they will pursue short-term profit gauging at the cost of solidifying Tesla's market dominance. we've seen the exact undercut model followed abroad as Volkswagen and Renault have both smashed Tesla in Europe by offering down-scaled EVs for drastically cheaper.

Tesla, owning 70ish% of the American EV market, is in a different boat. they've been aggressively raising prices of late, even following the expiration of the current tax rebate (it only applying to the first 200,000 vehicles of a given manufacturer; a figure they passed long ago), and demand is yet to abate. with Ford, GM, Audi, Volkswagen, et al aiming their guns directly at them that may change, and Tesla may well exploit the new rebate to lower costs or at least stop their price hikes. if they use it only to run up profit margins as their vehicles get undercut at every turn by multiple competitors it would be a textbook instance of corporate mismanagement.

Tesla is no longer the first, no longer the onlylest, and given Renault and Volkswagon are beating the shit out of them in Europe they better start acting like it. rules of the game are a changing now that they have to face real competitors in an open market space.

The Model 3 is by far the best selling EV in Europe - with 76k sold through August, far ahead of the VW ID3 in second place with 44k sold. While VW and Renault have a larger total market share (on lower profit-margin cheaper vehicles) Tesla's "competition" (like most EV makers) is only with how fast it can produce batteries. Some of that is by "choice" for conventional automakers deciding how much capital to put into battery manufacture, for Tesla they are basically doing as much CapEx as they can, there's no "other option" for growth other than MOAR BATTERIES. They've just barely started to roll out the Model Y in Europe, which is currently the biggest seller in the US - the Giga-Berlin factory won't start making Model Ys until the end of the year - but it'll make a shitload of them once it gets started.

It's a weird market in that it's so fucking supply constrained, the automakers aren't competing with each other as much as they would be in a mature market.

[Andalusian girls]

Model 3 is a banger of car everywhere it goes but the fact remains Tesla hemorrhaged European EV market share from 31% in 2019 to something like 17% today. Model 3 has stemmed the bleeding but the larger macro framework remains extant, and Volkswagen remains king. regardless, you don't seem to quite understand what i'm saying as you're repeating why Volkswagen et al gobbled up larger EV share. i'm not a Tesla pessimist, and think what they've already achieved is tremendous; establishing themselves in a handful of years as the industry leader in the automotive tranche that will grow more than all the others combined in the decades to come. rather i was refuting the claims that Tesla and everyone else will inevitably use the tax credit to run up profit margins, rather than weaponize them against their competitors in the escalating battle for market share.

the EV market is dramatically constrained by supply chain and production issues of course. everything in the world is currently, and it is such a nascent industry economies of scale in manufacturing them were (and remain) only partially formed even prior to Covid. but it's also ludicrous to pretend competition isn't occurring, and intensifying. in global market share Tesla has declined from 17.7% to 13.9% year over year. this is not a result of Tesla producing fewer cars, the grew 99% in fact, a wonderful metric for any company. but the market grew 154% year over year thereby affecting a 21% decline in market share. they can double production all they like but if the rest of the market triples it they'll grow themselves into irrelevance within a decade.

broadly speaking there are two kinds of trajectories for companies that gobble up dominant market share in nascent industries, the AOLs / MySpaces that brute force their way into early dominance (primarily by virtue of being convenient and being first) then decline and get eclipsed when other players get involved as their foundational products could not stand against open market competition. and then there the Nintendos / Amazons that parlay being first into being best and turn away all challengers. i'm not particularly arguing Tesla will go one way or the other, i'm saying using this tax to raise the price of all their American cars by $10,000 is a move much more reminiscent of the former than the latter.

[Andalusian girls]

actually 1 of those analogies is no good Atari was the early industry monopoly before Sega and Nintendo came along to kick the shit out of it. harder to stay first than be first i guess.

throw uhhhhh Netflix in there they've hung onto the top streaming service spot despite fierce competition.

[archibaldcrane]

The claim, of course, was dealer markups - so not relevant to Tesla that sells direct.

[archibaldcrane]

(but it was kind of a silly claim regardless, you saw Bolts and LEAFs selling well below MSRP even when GM and Nissan still had full $7500 tax credits available)

[Byrthnoth]

This was an unnecessarily deep dive to assert that the tax credit will be passed to the consumers.

To turn right, electrification of the consumer fleet seems to be outpacing the switch to renewables. These cars aren't necessarily better for the environment if they are effectively burning long-distance transmission coal. When we gonna do the clean power thing?

Fusion where you at?

[Andalusian girls]

This was an unnecessarily deep dive

twss

[archibaldcrane]

This was an unnecessarily deep dive to assert that the tax credit will be passed to the consumers.

To turn right, electrification of the consumer fleet seems to be outpacing the switch to renewables. These cars aren't necessarily better for the environment if they are effectively burning long-distance transmission coal. When we gonna do the clean power thing?

Fusion where you at?

Coal is down to 22% of the US grid and falling (although higher this year than 2020's low). There's a few states that are still majority coal, but they aren't exactly EV-popular states either.

[Outlaw]

What low-income person can buy a new EV(Or any car) right now anyways? Or even the cost of upgrading your home to support a car like that.

As someone who lives in a low-income area (east TN) I have NEVER see a Tesla on the road or in a parking lot. I can identify a car just by the shape/design too. Mostly just big diesel trucks or some piece of shit, 20 year old sedan, that makes you wonder how it's even running. The infrastructure here is about fifty years behind to even support electric.

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[archibaldcrane]

That's wild, I see 20 any day I'm driving a half hour or more.

But most of the infrastructure you need is just a charger in your garage.

[archibaldcrane]

But also there's a bunch of dedicated Tesla Superchargers within 175 miles of (lol) Pigeon Forge, TN

[Outlaw]

Wtf? Pigeon Forge is like.. pretty close to me. I haven't been there in two years though.

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