Minimum Wage?

[Kuya]

I tried to do that like 4 pages ago. But herpderp almost-trolls keep coming in trying to turn us back into a 3rd world country. I kindof like the concept of the government paying everybody 40k/yr (or something) to make sure people aren't living in complete poverty.

I also like it because it gives workers a real choice in employment. With a universal wage covering basic necessities, workers won't find themselves in the situation of having to accept awful jobs just to survive. Instead finding work bescomes more about looking for something you actually want to do, or getting some extra cash to buy things you don't need. You won't even need minimum wage since workers have an incentive to sell their their labor for more, bur at the same time, since a universal wage does not depend on employment, workers might see a sub minimum wage job as a practical occupation, since they won't starve on it.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I really wish the discussion would move away from minimum wage and towards a more direct solution like a living or universal wage. Minimum wage might help solve the pauperism some workers live in but it doesn't help solve the issue of chronic unemployment whoch universal wage helps with, but at the same time a universal wage also helps with worker pauperism by giving workers an alternative to a shit wage (or a supplement, if you want to see it that way).

How can someone who is unemployed be paid a universal wage? Unless you meant something else, that doesn't seem to help unemployment.

[Coren]

I also like it because it gives workers a real choice in employment. With a universal wage covering basic necessities, workers won't find themselves in the situation of having to accept awful jobs just to survive. Instead finding work bescomes more about looking for something you actually want to do, or getting some extra cash to buy things you don't need. You won't even need minimum wage since workers have an incentive to sell their their labor for more, bur at the same time, since a universal wage does not depend on employment, workers might see a sub minimum wage job as a practical occupation, since they won't starve on it.

And to expand on this, with a real choice in employment, people will do jobs that they actually like to do. If they like doing it, they'll do a better job. Of course, I'm assuming we're taking care of healthcare in this scenario as well.

[Kuya]

How can someone who is unemployed be paid a universal wage? Unless you meant something else, that doesn't seem to help unemployment.

The idea is that with a universal wage, a person is more willing to accept a sub minimum wage job since they don't have to rely on it for basic necessities. The idea is that by getting rid of minimum wage you increase available employment, and with a universal wage you make people more willing to accept those jobs they otherwise wouldn't have considered because they did not pay enough.

[Cream Soda]

I think minimum wage should be enough to support yourself and only yourself. I don't think you should be able to support a wife and kid(s) taking orders, flipping burgers, or mopping up my shit at McDonalds

[Gregorio]

16 year old kids deserve 40k a year jobs. Also, minimum wage should be raised to like 100 an hour. If the government gives everyone lots of money that would solve all the problems.

[test123]

Holy shit, I can't believe what I am reading.... Giving everyone lots of money will solve problems? If you gave every American 1 million dollars tomorrow then the price of everything would rise explosively. Houses would instantly go up 10000% in prices. And where do you suppose the money to hand out 40k to everyone should come from? If you print it, prices will rise, money will lose much of its value and you are back to where you started. If you tax it you will destroy business and cause massive unemployment. In some European countries you see over 35% of the adult population is out of work, simply a result of Gov handing out money. Gov even relabel the unemployed to avoid high statistical numbers.

Simply handing out money when there is no or little value in the labor is just a highway to collapse.

[hey]

americans won't work for $.3/hour, they'll work for $1/ hour.

No, they most certainly will not. They will stay home with mom and dad and not work, if that is their only option. Or else they'll just live on the street, which they'd be doing at $1/hr anyway.

Or as kuya said, we can just have the government help them out.

[Ksandra]

No, they most certainly will not. They will stay home with mom and dad and not work, if that is their only option. Or else they'll just live on the street, which they'd be doing at $1/hr anyway.

any amount that is lower than the current minimum wage is too low. and lol at everyone has a mommy and daddy with a nice house to stay with (protip mommy and daddies work too, if they also get paid for shit = no house to stay in)

get your head out of the bubble land you live in.


@ kuya, first wanted to say I haven't really been talking of minimum wage outside of I feel people who are paid it is too low. If there was a percentage ratio from ceo to lower workers, then I don't think there should be a minimum wage, and that government assistance should step in when profits of a business are too low.

the universal wage is interesting, but I'm curious as to where all the money would come from.

[hey]

any amount that is lower than the current minimum wage is too low.

No, it's really not. Personally, i wouldn't mind $6/hr. I'd take it over $0/hr any day. I might even take $5/hr, though i'd probably not be too happy about it. And if you're going to tell me i'm better off having no money than working for $6/hr, then you can go fuck yourself. It's just not true.

[Ksandra]

And if you're going to tell me i'm better off having no money than working for $6/hr, then you can go fuck yourself. It's just not true.

Do you even think before you speak? I spend this whole time saying people deserve more and you assume I think getting paid 0 is better than 5? you might want to stop posting and actually process what's being said first. Like kuya (but in a different way) I want people to get paid more so that way they are willing to take these jobs rather than not working at all.

Fuck I hate it when I see people with no job/no employment and they refuse to work at anything less than $20/ hour but can't find that job, and won't suck it up and work at Best Buy for awhile until something better comes along. I hate hate that.


But I also understand working at Best Buy isn't going to help a lot of people survive and I see an inherent issue with how low we are expecting people to get paid as is. And it's infuriating to think they could get paid more but don't because capitalism sucks ass and while they're living at the bare minimum the higher ups all have 5 mercedes.


Maybe if you actually pay attention you would have noticed that by now.

[hey]

Do you even think before you speak? I spend this whole time saying people deserve more and you assume I think getting paid 0 is better than 5?

You are arguing in favor of things that directly increase unemployment, so yes.

[Byrthnoth]

You are arguing in favor of things that directly increase unemployment, so yes.

Why does 100% employment give you a hard on? What makes you think that it is the optimal solution?

[hey]

Why does 100% employment give you a hard on? What makes you think that it is the optimal solution?

Who said anything about 100% employment?

[Byrthnoth]

You with all your "unemployment is teh devilz." I've got news for you brah! Letting some people not work is more efficient than hobbling our economy (through tariffs and crap) to get them jobs that they hate.

[hey]

Ok, but for the groups of people that mostly earn minimum wage, unemployment is retardedly high. Like, 40% for some. http://bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea13.htm

5% would be fine. 20%+ is crazy.

[Cantih]

Spoiler: show

How can someone who is unemployed be paid a universal wage? Unless you meant something else, that doesn't seem to help unemployment.

The idea is that with a universal wage, a person is more willing to accept a sub minimum wage job since they don't have to rely on it for basic necessities. The idea is that by getting rid of minimum wage you increase available employment, and with a universal wage you make people more willing to accept those jobs they otherwise wouldn't have considered because they did not pay enough.

Kuya, I think the term you're looking for isn't universal wage, but basic income.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

[test123]

Getting rid of Minimum Wage would open up jobs for everyone interested in working, it would end unemployment for good.

Talking about raising minimum wage would cause more unemployment as businesses won't see the benefit of selling goods and services at a loss. In order for them to stay open they would have to raise their prices, negating the minimum wage increase and you are back to zero. Raising minimum wage will not solve anything, the poor will still be poor the only difference is higher prices.

Handing out X amount of money to everyone covering basic income for all necessities is exactly the same as just giving out a free home, free lunch and free clothes to people. Money is just the middleman here. So how are you going to get free homes, food and clothes such that you can distribute them to everyone? You might want to look at the housing crisis as a reference here.

[Helm]

I don't think ending unemployment by lowering minimum wage is optimal. >_>

[Pirian]

Getting rid of Minimum Wage would open up jobs for everyone interested in working, it would end unemployment for good.

This is not true. There are many other factors that are attributed to available employment besides the cost of labor. Just wanted to point that out.


Also, this rediculusness about a "universal wage", or basic wage, would in no way work in a capitalist society. Giving a comfortable living wage to people for doing nothing just means that they can spend all their time on leisure activities. The only reason someone would work is if they wanted more than what was provided. We already have something similar to that -- it's called welfare. Another form of it currently in practice is social security, and everybody loves that program.

It really would be nice if we lived in the type of world where you could keep everybody afloat, but in order for there to be winners in a capitalist society, there has to be losers. Programs like minimum wage attempt to bring the "bottom" up, and probably do more good than harm, for the most part. I would also like to point out that one could make an argument that an absence of a minimum wage stifles innovation in production, in much the same way that cheap oil stifles renewable energy technology production.