GW2 Random Class Discussion: Shiyo Knows Best edition

[Rhyis.]

also, whats the best/usual weapon-of-choice for necromancers?

Scepter/Dagger and Staff are literally the only necro weapons.

[Kachiko]

But not figuratively? >_>;

[Rhyis.]

That is correct.

[Prothescar]

Putting the Vitality vs. Toughness debate to rest, spent the better part of the day today doing tests in Heart of the Mists to determine the effectiveness of Toughness. Essentially I was able to deduce that 100 Toughness is worth about 5% Damage Reduction, and it scales linearly.

So, working from base HP:

100 Toughness = +/- 5% Damage Reduction
100 Vitality = +1000 HP


Warrior, Necromancer: +5.16% HP
Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer: +6.22% HP
Guardian, Thief, Elementalist: +8.47% HP



If 100/(1 - Damage Reduction from Toughness) is less than 100*HPboost%, then toughness is inferior to vitality.


100/(1 - 0.05) = 105.26


Warrior, Necromancer

100 * 1.0516 = 105.16

Toughness is superior from base.



Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer

100 * 1.0622 = 106.22

Vitality is superior from base.


Guardian, Thief, Elementalist

100 * 1.0847 = 108.47

Vitality is superior from base.



Effectively, Toughness is a static inferiority unless you're a Warrior or Necromancer. Ergo, all Engineers, Rangers, Mesmers, Guardians, Thieves, and Elementalists should be gearing for Vitality instead of Toughness in terms of defensive stats if you're not using both.


Addendum on healing power and its effect on results:

It will mean you only have to use the ability 95% times as often, so 1/20 times you'd use it, you don't have to and that's if you can keep up with HP loss using it. Regeneration effects work in the same vein with less impact to where they're nearly equal.

If you're slowly losing HP while using it every time you can, damage reduction becomes more valuable. If you're losing HP in chunks and healing can not keep up with it, vitality improves due to having a higher threshold.

Higher HP would mean less healing lost due to overhealing if you have a minimum HP threshold to avoid being killed by higher damage attacks.

Ergo, regenerations and healing skills are affected based on the kind of damage you're taking and how often you're using the heals. 10% damage reduction does not increase the effectiveness of your heals by 10% when you're also increasing your HP by 2000, as they're adding a similar or one being slightly to moderately greater damage threshold overall. More damage reduction = less healing necessary depending on base HP and the damage reduction you're receiving from toughness, more HP = higher overall relative sustain but more healing necessary depending on base HP and the increase you're receiving from Vitality. A class with more healing will effectively gain more out of HP by being able to make use of the higher HP more effectively, keeping the threshold full more reliably. Not starting a fight at max HP will not tangibly affect the bearing of Toughness/Vitality effectiveness due to this, and if it does you'd be getting more mileage out of Vitality due to less loss of healing from overheals.

Using both if gearing defensively is ideal as the difference between either stat is within mere decimals of each other, however if you're looking to squeeze every bit of performance out of your gear, it would depend on your situation (damage, type of damage being taken; healing, how many heals incoming from yourself and others and their effectiveness son your HP pool; class "bracket")

Healing increases as effective HP increases, Toughness and Vitality both increase your survivability, thus healing is more effective depending on which stat is increasing your effective HP more as well as how much healing you're receiving from all sources and your ability to use that healing fully.

If you risk overcuring often, thereby wasting healing, then higher HP will be more efficient.
If, on the other hand, you do not risk overcuring, thereby making full use of each cure, damage reduction will be more efficient.

[Rhyis.]

Stack both like a boss.

[Shiyo]

My gear sets didn't change at all knowing this so that's cool that I knew how to gear without having to do any math at all.

[Alolbont]

Im having a few issues understanding how all the stats work. Could someone point me to or explain what the stats do and if What I should be stacking for different weapon types for warrior.

Also is it worth stacking a high crit percentage or should I just be looking for another stat?

[Dragir]

High vitality does necessitate starting every fight with some% more of your HP than you would have had before substituting vitality for toughness, and I'm a big fan of toughness on my mesmer since 1) I've been using it for a long time now and very rarely go down, and 2) I generally don't have all (or even half) of my HP in most situations. Not to mention that having more maximum HP would mean, as a mesmer using Ether Feast, I would have to add healing power to reach full HP with one use, and that would just annoy me.

Call me silly (or make me better by differently-explaining/reasoning why vitality is better; I would appreciate it).

[Kachiko]

Crafted Sets with at least one Defensive State:

• Emerald - Toughness/Power/Precision
• Chrysocola - Condition/Power/VIT
• Sapphire - Healing/Power/Toughness
• Beryl - Power/Crit Damage/VIT

I don't have the names handy, but you can also get the following, from Karma or Dungeon gear:

• Healing/Precision/Vitality
• Power/Toughness/Vitality
• Condition/Precision/Toughness

For me, a natural balance is two offensive stats and one defensive stat, otherwise, you die too fast or you take forever to kill something. This is where spec/build come into play to figure out which of the above you want to focus on. You also have to keep in mind that only VIT mitigates condition damage, but you then have to balance that with your condition removal capability.

For me, the choice is a combination of Emerald Accessories with Condition/Precision/Toughness gear, as I need crits, to trigger my condition damage, and power is a straight damage increase. This means I am toughness heavy but that's the compromise I take for being able to do better damage. Combined with a perpetual Protection buff, it suits my playstyle very well. Other classes may want to focus on Vitality equipment or a combination of VIT & Toughness equipment, depending on what two stats their build/spec gets the most damage capacity out of.

[Aevis]

don't forget that there are runes available which add 5% of toughness to condition / 5% of vitality to power. so stacking both isn't that profitable if you don't really need them to survive. I love my condition/precision/toughness set on RNG, although I only got two exotics so far.

[arus2001]

Been slowly working toward Power/Vitality/Toughness gear for my warrior, but can't decide what runes I'd wanna plop into it. :/

[supercoco]

a full tough/vita/xxx set with a defensive build should be able to win a glass canon foe?

[Meph]

Been slowly working toward Power/Vitality/Toughness gear for my warrior, but can't decide what runes I'd wanna plop into it. :/

Ive been using the chainmail karma armor with 5/6 superior http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Necromancer

[Eldelphia]

I just noticed this post (and that it was never answered)... but, no, support builds/roles are not really looked down upon or anything. In fact, a few more would be welcome on most worlds, I'm sure. When you have to stand at a door or a wall with a ram or a golem (and the rest of the zerg), the more AOE healing, projectile reflection/absorption, and push/pull control skills there are around that one spot the better.

I don't mean so much by players but in terms of the ability to earn xp. I really have no problem standing back and curing/buffing/supporting other players but it gets me nothing compared to wading in and adding to the fray.

[Kiarax]

Been slowly working toward Power/Vitality/Toughness gear for my warrior, but can't decide what runes I'd wanna plop into it. :/

If you WvW I'd say Soldier just for the shouts = condition cure, plus it gives another 1.6k HP and 50 Toughness. Keep in mind you can craft them if you have Armorsmithing leveled, I used to turn a profit buying the mats and selling the runes, so it might still be cheaper to make them yourself than straight up buy the runes. Profits have kind of topped out on a lot of things so it may not be the case anymore though.

[arus2001]

That I can do, and will keep in mind. Still got a lot AC ahead of me, but D3 patch might distract me a while. x.x

[Shiyo]

No one should ever use soldier gear/weapons as any spec/class combination in this game.

[Kiarax]

Now you've done it...

[Celeras]

Effectively, Toughness is a static inferiority unless you're a Warrior or Necromancer. Ergo, all Engineers, Rangers, Mesmers, Guardians, Thieves, and Elementalists should be gearing for Vitality instead of Toughness in terms of defensive stats if you're not using both.

I hope everyone realized how awful this entire post was. Didn't even touch on the incredibly obvious fact that Vitality becomes less beneficial the more you have irregardless of healing, and that once HP reaches a certain point that toughness becomes mathematically superior.

In terms of eHP, everyone should be stacking toughness once they reach that point. And only the lowest HP tiers need more than 1-2 pieces of gear to get there. Only exceptions being for situations of constant and considerable condition damage, which is a scenario I'm not even sure exists.

[Kachiko]

Some dungeon bosses have periods of constant condition damage, due to a AoE field effect. It was the one fight I did die on, but not due to just that condition damage; a pew pew lazer stunned and killed me from near 100% HP.