GW2 Random Class Discussion: Shiyo Knows Best edition

[Arelian]

I feel like Shiyo's trying to be overly aggressive now that it's expected of her.

[Kuishen]

THF is garbage no matter what shitty spec you try to come up with, and that spec sounds like negative damage. Want CC? Invite a necro - insane dmg and FEAR IGNORES DEFIANT., don't need to fuck around with spamming 0 dps headshots and other dumb shit.

Like seriously..dagger/pistol? Come the fuck on, if you want to spam headshot at least MH sword, a fucking warriors autoattack will outdps a dagger/pistol THF LOL. Complete GARBAGE weapon combo.

You missed the entire point of my post if all you got out of it was that I use dagger/pistol. I only use it on bosses where we need something stunned asap, i.e. the Dredge Mining Suit healing move. Pistol Whip does not get rid of defiance fast because it has a 3-4 second animation.

EDIT: @Kiarax, 14k hp. My shortbow has vitality on it so 16kish when I'm using that. As long as I'm not lagging I'm good at dodging things so low hp isn't generally an issue. You could obviously improve on the build by switching armor to suit your playstyle more.

The insane amount of initiative I have makes up for any damage I lose from having non-berserkers stuff or using so-called garbage weapon combos. Don't get me wrong, I agree that Dagger/Pistol is terrible but for taking off Defiance in a hurry it is amazing with this build.

As for bringing a Necro... you really want to try finding a competent Necro? The class is almost as bad as Thief and trying to find a competent player behind that class is not going to happen when playing with a couple randoms like we usually have to do.

[Shiyo]

The class is almost as bad as Thief

What? Necro is fucking amazing, and also face roll as fuck, the class basically requires no skill or thought at all, you pretty much just roll your face across the keyboard and apply infinite conditions in AOE while having infinite survivability. Necro is not weak at all, anyone who thinks necro is weak is beyond fucking retarded and has no idea how this game works at all.

[Cjskater]

Why necro isn't a good class for PvE (just in comparison to others):
Combo fields they have access to are not very useful (aka not water or fire, light and poison fields are ok but you don't get to make much use of those in comparison). You tend to overwrite the good fields with shitty ones like your dark wells.
Finishers, specifically blast are rare, you've got bone minions and staff #4. Bone minions are a utility which you could use for something else and are finicky as fuck anyway, and staff #4 has a long fucking cooldown.
If anybody else is running a condition spec that uses bleeds, you'll have reduced effectiveness
Dagger/Wells tanky build is probably the best PvE build but the support it has is so low you'd be better off taking something else. In fact taking into account the previous things, it could possibly hurt the group to take a Dagger/Wells necro depending on the makeup of the party.

I have over 1,000 hours on my necro, so I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to necro. I recommend you level it yourself, been saying this awhile, ever since you first started complaining about necro (I'm guessing a necro destroyed your thief). On the outside looking in, necro is amazing. In practice a lot of our stuff falls short, however. Not saying its bad, I don't think any class is bad in PvE. The only class I would really rather not have in my group is a condition mesmer, they are kind of a detriment to your group in dungeons.

[Shiyo]

I've never lost to a necro in anything below 3vs1 on my THF.

[Kiarax]

She's started saying Necro is good because she leveled her Mesmer with my Necro. I ran D/D+Staff using a hybrid Power/Cond Build and wells and it was faceroll as fuck. Whilst I agree that kind of setup might be better replaced by another class, I still think it brings enough to the table to more than earn it's place. It puts out decent damage, you have practically infinite AoE Weakness (Staff 3 -> 4, /D 5, entering Death Shroud for another /D 5), which essentially functions as a 25% damage taken for everyone getting hit and can still shit conditions everywhere depending on what utils you choose to run. I haven't messed with other builds, so maybe I just happened to choose the only real viable one, but I think that setup is great as is (and I've come across like, a single bug too, hence her random "Mesmer has more bugs than Necro" the other day).

[Cjskater]

Your complaints about it started around the time you hit 80 on thief. "Necro is the best 1v1 class." Seeing as a necro should beat every thief build straight up minus 1, if they are decent, I'd say it was a pretty good guess... still not sure if I'm wrong there.

Edit: Ah, so thats where that post came from. Haha, yeah, people run dagger/wells because it doesn't have bugs (and its more useful than condition spec in PvE). Well of Corruption > Corrupt boon because it cant miss, all the dagger skills work as intended, they are decent damage, and well of power is actually pretty useful as an ability (too bad its a dark field, so hard to get that in there), etc. Dagger is most definitely faceroll, mainly because the other 2 skills on mainhand aren't even required in PvE. Staff however most definitely is not faceroll, if anything I'd say its one of the least faceroll things in the game (how to use it properly).

The build does have some use, that's why its the best PvE build. There's just so many ways to screw up party synergy with it that most of the time doing anything except autoattacking becomes a liability. If you want somebody to autoattack, get a warrior, they do it better and there's way more of them to pool from (and they can heal without using a combo field, and they can blast finisher, and they can tank, etc)

[niwaar]

They're naked cause I don't wanna log in and instantly die at the rich orich to a stupid champion that randomly 1 shots! Every other hairstyle/color looks horrible so I want all my chars to look the same! ;D Which worked out well since I ended up changing my main anyways...since ele is the worst class in the UNIVERSE, and I want my main to look like my favorite model!

Alright, I understand the naked part ... As for ele being the worse class in the universe, you are far too into the realm of hyperbole. I will admit that since I have been leveling my mesmer and playing my warrior in our dungeon runs, the game has become a lot more fun for me. I just feel that they tried too hard to make elementalist a lot of things all at once. I really wish they had gone the old road from GW1 where your elementalist was more focused on 1 element rather than pushing you to play in multiple "stances" in order to be effective. Sure, I can be lazy, stick in one element and have more fun, but I am then a detriment to the team. I would have rather seen them give elementalists a weapon swap and curb the need to swap elements with a longer CD or a pure choice with a utility that let you use them all or something. All in all the way elementalists work has always been a disappointment from the pure Black/Red Mage fanboy in me.

Hey. Fuck you.

:p

There's just so many ways to screw up party synergy with it that most of the time doing anything except autoattacking becomes a liability. If you want somebody to autoattack, get a warrior, they do it better and there's way more of them to pool from (and they can heal without using a combo field, and they can blast finisher, and they can tank, etc)

Thats the real issue with having multiple "field" professions in a group. Necro really shines when there is no elementalist in the group as far as I am concerned. When the Necro isn't screwing up Water and Fire fields left and right. In my experience without an elementalist the vast majority of fields dropped tend to be Light or Poison anyway. The odd fire or god forbid you have a ranger with a water field, but ... without an ele this issue is not all that huge of a liability.

Our group has a player who has a Guardian, Ranger, Engineer and Necro at 80 and geared. We tend to be the most successful with his engineer but the Necro is a decent second. AoE blind is a godsend in everything but SE and the Dredge Fractal. Yes, the profession has pretty much only one real viable trait spec because of bugs (at the moment) but that line is incredibly successful if its not stepping on other people's toes.

[Prothescar]

I feel that a lot of people underestimate the power of chill and weakness, both of which Necro has in droves

[Lucavi]

She's started saying Necro is good because she leveled her Mesmer with my Necro. I ran D/D+Staff using a hybrid Power/Cond Build and wells and it was faceroll as fuck. Whilst I agree that kind of setup might be better replaced by another class, I still think it brings enough to the table to more than earn it's place. It puts out decent damage, you have practically infinite AoE Weakness (Staff 3 -> 4, /D 5, entering Death Shroud for another /D 5), which essentially functions as a 25% damage taken for everyone getting hit and can still shit conditions everywhere depending on what utils you choose to run. I haven't messed with other builds, so maybe I just happened to choose the only real viable one, but I think that setup is great as is (and I've come across like, a single bug too, hence her random "Mesmer has more bugs than Necro" the other day).

Are you her official PR rep or translator? Mind you, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, as I can't replicate her experiences, but its just weird coming in here and seeing Shiyo >> You + filter >> can be released to the public, every time.

[Cjskater]

I feel that a lot of people underestimate the power of chill and weakness, both of which Necro has in droves

Probably. Chill is one of if not the best condition in the game. I don't know about droves though, 2 sources that all necros should have, 4* if you really really really want it (lolspectral grasp and focus.. would be like thief speccing for blind). Weakness is a little easier with the poison combo and dagger with weakness on crits, but only really has high uptime with that.

Anyway, like I said, I don't think any class is necessarily bad in PvE. But if you're going to try and rank them then necro isn't anywhere near the top of what would be preferred, too finicky and needs a special makeup just to be useful. Feels like being a mnk in XI (back before 2006, I quit around then), except this time I don't even want to group with my own class.

edit: *sorry, 4 1/2, forgot the traits

[Shiyo]

If you have a guardian in your group(which you always should) combo fields are 100% worthless because you have passive light fields(aka the worst field in the game) up 24/7.

[Cjskater]

lol, my wells heal is a light field, I know that feel as well

Retaliation is cool and all but there's no situation where you'd really want it in PvE, pretty much the same for condition removal (which is weird)

[The Blackrose]

Alright, I understand the naked part ... As for ele being the worse class in the universe, you are far too into the realm of hyperbole. I will admit that since I have been leveling my mesmer and playing my warrior in our dungeon runs, the game has become a lot more fun for me. I just feel that they tried too hard to make elementalist a lot of things all at once. I really wish they had gone the old road from GW1 where your elementalist was more focused on 1 element rather than pushing you to play in multiple "stances" in order to be effective. Sure, I can be lazy, stick in one element and have more fun, but I am then a detriment to the team. I would have rather seen them give elementalists a weapon swap and curb the need to swap elements with a longer CD or a pure choice with a utility that let you use them all or something. All in all the way elementalists work has always been a disappointment from the pure Black/Red Mage fanboy in me.

A big part of the problem is since BWE, Elementalist has taken hit after hit to damage, traits and mechanics, and has not received anything out of it. Meanwhile it's sitting on a bunch of bugs that are not in its favor that have not been touched, while the interesting/exploitable ones have been fixed (Lightning Staff 2) or fixed plus nerfed into oblivion (Evasive Arcana).

Also, some of the mechanics they keep trying to push, like using Eruption as a Blast mechanic, is downright retarded.

[Celeras]

If you have a guardian in your group(which you always should) combo fields are 100% worthless because you have passive light fields(aka the worst field in the game) up 24/7.

With a single sentence, you managed to say:

-Condition removal is the worst combo effect in the game
-You cannot execute area Blinds, Stealths, or Weaknesses because there is a guardian in the party
-You should always have one of X class in your group, even though they singlehandedly remove any aspect of comboing with other people.

Such fucking stupidity I cannot even fathom.

[Kirbyprime]

A big part of the problem is since BWE, Elementalist has taken hit after hit to damage, traits and mechanics, and has not received anything out of it. Meanwhile it's sitting on a bunch of bugs that are not in its favor that have not been touched, while the interesting/exploitable ones have been fixed (Lightning Staff 2) or fixed plus nerfed into oblivion (Evasive Arcana).

Also, some of the mechanics they keep trying to push, like using Eruption as a Blast mechanic, is downright retarded.

Don't go to the official forums, someone actually asked that ele's downed mist form be nerfed because a can use it to do hit and runs in keeps for wvw.

[Meph]

well I really like PvE as elem, #2 after warrior so far (altho Ive only played up to 30-40 on the other classes)

[Prothescar]

With a single sentence, you managed to say:

-Condition removal is the worst combo effect in the game
-You cannot execute area Blinds, Stealths, or Weaknesses because there is a guardian in the party
-You should always have one of X class in your group, even though they singlehandedly remove any aspect of comboing with other people.

Such fucking stupidity I cannot even fathom.

While I don't entirely agree with her (it's entirely possible to control which fields you combo with), your continued lack of adding anything of substance in any post you've ever made continues to astound me. It grows increasingly irritating as time goes by, so either put the fuck up or shut the fuck up already.

[Katlan]

i know i contributed to part of it, but this thread is starting to turn into a Shiyo (and Kiarax) against others. And the class discussion element of it has started to go down the drain and ppl are antagonizing others. Lets try to keep it back to a class discussion on and also in helping others who have questions.