Guild Wars 2: Post-Release Discussion

[Takiwaki]

Yes I thought the cash shop would be updated very regularly with new skins etc that people would spend money on, I wonder if they are losing players? The crap that dailies has become seems to suggest that they are trying hard to keep people grinding away, which again is totally opposite to what the original was. I mean keeping people playing isnt gonna make you more money.. the cash shop is..

I work from home also.. but cant be arsed to log in recently..

[Churchill]

wvw only really

[Prothescar]

guild wars 2 has failed entirely to retain any of what guild wars 1 was pretty much, which is a shame since a GW1's core systems would still be perfectly acceptable in a modern setting if adapted slightly and would provide players with actual things to do aside from daily/monthly grinds and shit dungeons.

[Shiyo]

I didn't spend a single dime on the cash shop, yet I have in other f2p mmo's. GW2's cash shop is horribly done, everything is so overpriced that I'd never want to spend IRL money on anything, and the small amount of gold it used to cost for gems made it so I just spent my gold on items instead...and there was VERY few items I actually spent gold on.

[Celeras]

Has the genre really fallen so far that you nigs are complaining about "content gating" for things that take 15 minutes for two weeks?

Disclaimer: I play e'ryday and don't have sand in my vagina.

[Celeras]

I mean, really? Ascended rings came from Fractal chests. Then they also came from doing any 10 fractals. Then they also came from Laurels. Now they can drop in the weekly reward from doing Guild Missions along with other accessories. Shortly, they will be available in WvW. Yes, it's rolling out slow and methodically.. but to quite literally every single aspect of the game. The developers clearly regret not recognizing the need for the extra tier from jump street, but I have zero issues with how its being rolled out other than pacing.. which doesn't effect me in the slightest.

The fact that people can even consider this grinding blows my fucking mind. I have a legendary, and every ascended item available thus far. 9/10 times I finish my daily accidentally in WvW. Sometimes (recently) I don't do it at all because I feel like a few matches of Spirit Watch. Occasionally I'll load up Dragon timer to see if anythings close, which usually takes care of half the categories by itself.

[Kuishen]

I don't have a problem with grinding.

I have a problem that since I'm not in a large guild nor do I want to be, my only alternative for ascended earrings is waiting a month for ONE earring.

Anything gated purely behind "You can only do this so often" is bad design, period. It was bad in XI, it's been bad in every other MMO it's been in, it's bad in GW2. Doubly so because GW2 doesn't have a sub fee so there's not even a reason to implement that kind of useless cockblock.

I fail to see how anybody could possibly disagree with me on that point.

[Celeras]

I intentionally brought up the rings because the other accessories are fairly new. In your case there are only two routes to the item you want. You choose to bar yourself from easier method, and don't like the second because it's too long. Do you not think that they'll be brought to all other aspects of the game as well (which they obviously will be)? Do you feel the need to get it right NOWNOWNOW for some reason?

Because that's my point. Ya the options are limited when stuff first shows its head, but for the most part I've gotten my shit incidentally by doing what I consider fun. It's not about not having a problem with grinding, but not grinding. You see gates; I see do this, or this, or this, or this.

[Kuishen]

I intentionally brought up the rings because the other accessories are fairly new. In your case there are only two routes to the item you want. You choose to bar yourself from easier method, and don't like the second because it's too long. Do you not think that they'll be brought to all other aspects of the game as well (which they obviously will be)? Do you feel the need to get it right NOWNOWNOW for some reason?

Dealing with a horde of stupid people is not "easier" in my opinion. If they wanted to implement it to all aspects of the game, why didn't they just wait and release that shit all at once instead of doing it the slow and painful way that they currently are? Release each particular gear slot incrementally but they should have released the rings and back piece with all of the possible ways they have planned to obtain them at once.

It's not about getting it now. It's that I don't want to level other characters because I won't be able to properly gear them for 4 months because of an absolute asinine cockblock. You are seriously just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. Telling me I can only do so much of a certain aspect of your game per day or week is asinine. There is no excuse for it in game development, ever. End of discussion dude.

Because that's my point. Ya the options are limited when stuff first shows its head, but for the most part I've gotten my shit incidentally by doing what I consider fun. It's not about not having a problem with grinding, but not grinding. You see gates; I see do this, or this, or this, or this.

How can you not see "Oh hey how about you wait for a month for this piece of equipment for no fucking good reason" as a gate? It's one thing to not get something as a drop for a long time, it's quite another to have the game block your progress for no reason.

This could have easily been avoided if they had finished their shit before implementing it.

[Celeras]

You cant "properly" gear a new character without an ascended earring? You'd prefer they'd not release anything at all, rather then doing it incrementally? You focus on "how long it takes me to get X" rather than "can I get X if I play for fun whenever I want to"?

I see your points just fine. I just don't agree with them in the slightest.

[Kuishen]

You cant "properly" gear a new character without an ascended earring?

Really? You're starting to sound like people on the OF now. Best possible gear or gtfo, what's the point in playing an MMO if you don't want the best gear, whether that be in looks or stats. As somebody with a legendary I would assume you understand that.

You'd prefer they'd not release anything at all, rather then doing it incrementally?

I'd prefer them to get their shit right the first time instead of adding shitty ways to do things, and then better ways to do those same things later on.

You focus on "how long it takes me to get X" rather than "can I get X if I play for fun whenever I want to"?

I see your points just fine. I just don't agree with them in the slightest.

Doing Dailies isn't fun. I don't have fun in WvW, I don't want to level new characters because of the aforementioned issues, so I'm stuck running around doing content I've already done before on a character I've already done it with. They went and ruined my favorite dungeon with shitty time-wasters to where it's not worth the time to do it anymore.

I WOULD be having fun if I could level new characters and experience the huge world in a slightly different light again, but what's the point when it's going to take 3-4 months to get him up to par with my main character for no fucking good reason?

That's my main argument here. There is no reason for it. You haven't given me one, they don't have one, why are we arguing about it?

[Aevis]

I'm all for beeing able to get ascended stuff through every aspect of the game, but those are some strange arguments. "I rather wait x months without any way at all to get ascended stuff" vs "I could do dailies for a month and get ascended stuff until I can get it by doing w/e". It's a silly conversation anyway. This isn't haste+1% in ffxi, it's ascended gear in GW2. As if it would matter outside of giving a sense of accomplishment.

Can't understand the hate on dailies either. 3/5 I do on the way and the other two are mostly "got to area x and kill/do events". They said they want people to go back into the PvE areas and it works, at least on my server. Queensdale is almost back to it's release glory and I've seen constant shouts on areas like gendarran fields for events.

[Celeras]

Doing Dailies isn't fun. I don't have fun in WvW, I don't want to level new characters because of the aforementioned issues, so I'm stuck running around doing content I've already done before on a character I've already done it with. They went and ruined my favorite dungeon with shitty time-wasters to where it's not worth the time to do it anymore.

I WOULD be having fun if I could level new characters and experience the huge world in a slightly different light again, but what's the point when it's going to take 3-4 months to get him up to par with my main character for no fucking good reason?

That's my main argument here. There is no reason for it. You haven't given me one, they don't have one, why are we arguing about it?

The reason for what, why universal accessibility doesn't have to be the equivalent of short/easy? There isn't an answer for that because it's entirely subjective. Would you feel better if it was a rare drop that took you thirty days to get? If it was an NPC purchase that took you thirty days to get the gold for? Doubtful, considering you seem to be awfully hung up on the timeframe rather than the content itself.

You want things to take less time/be easier, by the sounds of it because you don't enjoy playing the game. You don't find doing dailies fun, I accidentally finish my dailies while having fun. What's to argue? Seems we're just two different sides of the gaming coin.

[Kuishen]

I'm all for beeing able to get ascended stuff through every aspect of the game, but those are some strange arguments. "I rather wait x months without any way at all to get ascended stuff" vs "I could do dailies for a month and get ascended stuff until I can get it by doing w/e". It's a silly conversation anyway. This isn't haste+1% in ffxi, it's ascended gear in GW2. As if it would matter outside of giving a sense of accomplishment.

Wishing they'd waited to implement a system until they made it whole isn't a strange argument. I fail to see how either of you are taking that as nothing should have been released in the past 3 months.

Also this is exactly like haste+1% in ffxi, a marginal increase in stats to better your character. It matters to anybody who plays with the intent to play a game the best possible way they can with the best gear they can obtain, which is, I wanna say... the majority of MMO players.

Can't understand the hate on dailies either. 3/5 I do on the way and the other two are mostly "got to area x and kill/do events". They said they want people to go back into the PvE areas and it works, at least on my server. Queensdale is almost back to it's release glory and I've seen constant shouts on areas like gendarran fields for events.

Some of my hate for dailies is irrational due the fact that I hate being forced to go into WvW to get some achievement points that I only have a 24 hour window to obtain. However I'm sure I would enjoy dailies more if I didn't feel cockblocked from making new characters.

EDIT: @Celeras: Your examples are stupid because both of those things are dependent on luck and HOW MUCH TIME I'M WILLING TO PUT INTO IT. It's not that I want things to be faster/easier. It's that I want the option to move it along at my own pace based on how much fucking time I spend playing the game, not have the game telling me "OK STOP! THAT'S ENOUGH FOR TODAY! ^_^" every day. That is a shitty fucking game mechanic as I've said several times throughout this argument and something that you have failed to address.

[Churchill]

I'd feel better if I could gear my characters via WvW badges, Pristine Fractal Relics, Laurels, Guild Missions, Group Event chest drops, or random looting. I'd feel better if every time something was released, it was available from all content to all players. If you play WvW only then right now you have a ring, amulet, or accessory and that is the only thing you have. It isn't haste +1? lol. Crit damage is the single most unscaling stat in the game and guess what ascended gear has over exotic? It is flat out stupid to not be using it, especially if you actively do the only endgame gw2 has - except you can't use it because the game doesn't let you.

They also wouldn't cost a month+ worth of Laurels when I can get it in 4 days or less of fractals (not difficult at all), they wouldn't have 50 ectos attached to the worst trinket slot, it wouldn't take for-fucking-ever to get the relics for a backpiece, etc,etc,etc.

[Aevis]

I fail to see how either of you are taking that as nothing should have been released in the past 3 months.

So what you are really looking for is an answer to why it hasn't been implented yet? If so, then that makes it even more awkward because who could tell you outside of ANet? If you just want to complain for the sake of complaining, we have a complaint thread.

Also this is exactly like haste+1% in ffxi, a marginal increase in stats to better your character. It matters to anybody who plays with the intent to play a game the best possible way they can with the best gear they can obtain, which is, I wanna say... the majority of MMO players.

The difference is, that the FFXI game mechanics actually cared about your intent of beeing the best of the best. There were isolated situations that directly rewarded (and measured) you for beeing better geared (meripo) and others even put a requirement on specific stats (say, at least points x in dark magic to hit y reliable).

GW2 simply doesn't care. Sure, as example there was this long debate about ascended geared people in WvW vs non. At the end, there are way too many factors to make some marginal stats increase really count in WvW. This goes hand in hand with ANets design philosophy: It's all about appereance and personal skill.

That doesn't contradict with own personal goals of having the best of the best, but GW2 doesn't promote it. You can do it but there's nothing to gain outside of personal accomplishment. You can't even show how awesome you became, excluding legendaries. If you play GW2 for items/stats, you'll hit a wall very fast and even faster, once you can really get ascended stuff everywhere. But what then? There is no feedback from the game telling you "good job getting that x" and the content is still the same. There's one odd exception and that's fractals because of AR.

@church

On paper, I absolutely agree. But tell me, when was the last time in WvW you hit the exact same amount of enemies as you were, with the same job distribution (it would actually have to be the same builds too), without any outside interruption and could tell "damn, I wish I had that missing ascended gear so I could make a difference"? I'm not saying to wear exotic and don't care about ascended at all. Kuishen however said he won't level his new alt because he can't gear it properly for 4 months and that's just silly, given the game is GW2.

[Churchill]

I think the point is that the game should be the content, not waiting. I enjoy playing WvW and quite honestly that's content that will probably never see much change or updating - it's player driven. I have to leave WvW and go to shit areas to do dailies, I have to leave to go get Ascended pieces, I'd have to leave were I to work on a Legendary, I have to leave to get non-PTV gear, etc.

In a game where nearly all gear is cosmetic and nothing takes skill or time to acquire, I don't see why Ascended gear does (especially given the games "intent").

It's also scaled horribly and screams "our intent is for you to grind, we're clueless, Jon Peters balances Warrior and he runs 5 signet, etc". The single best piece is the amulet and it's 30 Laurels. Gear that can be done in 1 day or less if you have enough characters costs 35. Gear that you need two of and has less stats (costs less on TP, etcetcetc) cost 40 + 50 ectos.

Pretty lulzy.

I can't wait until Ascended gear in WvW costs something other than badges so people who truly only WvW can get thoroughly fucked behind their PVE counterparts. 50 Mist Tokens, receive 1 for taking Stonemist 10 times (limit 1 per day, 0 per monthly) to get Accessories - 400 for the body piece.

[Aevis]

Yeah. I reached 40 laurels yesterday, checked all the stuff and thought it can't be right. Why do I have to pay 40 + 50 ectos when it's worse than some 30s?

WvW was held back due to the whole culling fiasco and I can't get my head around why it never occured them to be a problem during development. It took them 6 months and most of their WvW team to fix it, if we can believe the march update announcement. I'll do a barrel roll if it actually works. We have 5-6 commanders on per map because everyone vanishes outside of 10m in a 20vs20 clash or bigger.

[Churchill]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbra_Software

This + all the things related to it if you google.

I think I posted it here before, but there are two solutions that are going to occur in March.

One is to turn culling off entirely (or have the ability to) and give us more graphics options so our systems can be fine tuned

The other is to completely rewrite how their culling engine interacts and processes data so that it is more(Actually?lol) GPU intensive(using the GPU).

They could do both, and if so then I'd believe culling would be fixed (though their servers would still be complete shit in large fights). They will probably do the first option and not really fine tune the graphics options.

[Kuishen]

Church summed up any other points I may have had on the issue.

It would make me feel better if in this upcoming update they add the ascended gear to WvW and it doesn't suck a complete and massive dick but given their track record as of late I'm just gonna assume it's going to be like Church's example and be pleasantly surprised if it's otherwise.

I may not like WvW but if it's the lesser of 3 evils then I'll take it.