Lightning Returns XIII-3

[Gokulo]

XV won't bring anything back, stop kidding yourself right now. The FF you want is long gone, went away with your and the series years.

Anyway, story is retarded, game play is fun. Farming ep is a mechanic, not a justification, lol

[Vaspinne]

Different strokes for different folks

This should pretty much be a banner at the top of any discussion or debate about anything, lol.

I liked 13. I didn't get super into all the extra stuff like hunts and farming the ultimate weapons and etc because I enjoy FF games for the story. And while many people may have disliked the story, I found it enjoyable for my own reasons.

13-2 I really enjoyed. The gameplay was fun and while the story was convoluted as fuck, it was at least somewhat coherent enough to follow. So I enjoyed the gameplay more and the story not as much I suppose.

As for 13-3, I'm close to being done. I kind of already know who the final boss will be, it is kind of predictable (there is also HUUUUUUGE foreshadowing when Lightning puts on a particular firework filled show lol). But I actually really enjoy the story so far. I could get all the Snow bashing in 13 and even in 13-2, but I feel like in 13-3 it was really handled and concluded well, albeit some what cheesily, but well enough regardless. And some of the other mission line endings were solid too. It might just be because I like putting a button on things and not leaving things open ended. And it may also be because I always enjoy a dramatic story (even when at times it's overly dramatic). But from what I've played so far, I've really enjoyed the story of 13-3.

Don't confuse that statement of 13-3 being my favourite FF. It's far from it (9 is best, fuck all the haters).

And yeah, the gameplay is pretty rad so far. As RPG's have evolved over the years, I've more and more started leaning towards the action-RPG style ala the KH series. And if FFXV turns out to be the action-RPG style, then I'll be more then happy with it! So turn based/ATB based battles are not so much my thing anymore. But regardless, I've enjoyed how the fighting style of 13 has evolved over the 3 games and really do enjoy how it's done in this (hopefully final) sequel.

[Vaspinne]

I also have a very not so backed theory/hunch that the decline in enjoyability of the more recent FF games has to do with the introduction of voice acting and better graphics. Take FF1->9, it's all in text and you can't really make out expressions on character faces. So when you read the story, you're filling that all out with your own imagnation. After that, the voices, faces, etc, are done for you, and thus, aren't what you would have thought/heard in your own mind.

I guess what I'm trying to say that it's like reading a book and then seeing a movie based on the book. You loved the book because you filled out all the details in your own mind, and when it's someone else's interpretation, it's usually no where near as good. So sort of like that with these FF games. All the disapproving opinions on the stories and characters more or less coincide with the introduction of voice acting and better graphics lol.

Again, just a bit of a theory

[Spira]

Or maybe I'm just finally an old man and unable to be inspired anymore.

I think this would be it.
It feels as though the older we get the more cynical we become, and even if we're really enthralled by something, the magic will never be the same as it was when we were younger.

A lot of this I attribute to "opening" wanderlust (opening as opposed to middlegame/endgame. its a chess term), or experiencing the "newness" of the game. Where everything is new and exciting and you're lost in all of it. The more experience you have playing these games, the less of it you will experience, in some ways. Vaspinne's theory on imagination plays a huge part too. Perceiving by reading can be a lot more powerful than by visual and sound because it leaves a lot to the imagination (of which most kids thankfully have good ones).

LR:XIII is by no means a bad RPG, especially if your focus is on gameplay, but people have to manage expectations. You can never compare LR to XIII on "newness" by virtue of the fact that it's a sequel. Story is always subjective, but I do feel like it tied up the loose ends from parts 1 and 2 fairly well. Music is not too bad as well. btw they didn't reuse the music from XIII because it was good, but rather because they could (its an IP thing, just like how other FF composers could never use Uematsu's classic melodies like Fanfare/Chocobo theme without permission until they sorted it out.. which was after FFX-2).

also, I agree with Gokulo. farming EP for chronostasis is a mechanic, not a justification. You don't ever need to use Chronostasis to complete the game. It only helps you get more things done as soon as possible, freeing more time to do other quests, and giving you more opportunity to wander and do whatever you want. Without it, i'd imagine trying for perfect game would be like a speed run.

[Tyrath]

Story in XIII was meh. Story in XIII-2 was pants-on-head retarded. No amount of Paradigm Pack fun could erase that. I've only skimmed this thread since the release but nothing I've read so far is encouraging story-wise.

Well if you're just looking for story then like I said in my first post, I wouldn't recommend LR to you.

[Elcura]

All I'm reading is "I LIKED THE MUSIC AND STORY OF XIII MORE" which is retarded because XIII-3 has mostly the same music (and the new music is good) and XIII's story has always been retarded so liking that is just...I dunno.

As far as "just farm EP so you don't have to worry about time" mentality goes.....that is the most ridiculous and indefensible statement trying to justify a bad system in any game I have ever heard.....ever.

How is it bad? You're kneejerking hard over something you can't seem to explain. You complain about time, there's a solution so you complain about the solution which makes me think you just want to bitch about something. Probably about how this isn't FF# whatever and you miss your FFFEELZ.

Different strokes for different folks I guess, but finding a redeeming quality from this game is really tough and I suspect most people that try to justify it in any way are just pot committed.

It really isn't. Battle system is fun and Schematas are cool, bam, redeemed.

I'll wait for XV to bring the magic back.

Don't.

[Alkar]

The gameplay in this is very solid, I'm honestly having a blast with it and the options are nearly infinite with all the garbs and abilities they throw at you. The story is not even the focus of the game, they basically just finish each character's story arc and the rest are a bunch of sidequests to explain the new world and how people have adapted to it. You don't even need to hunt minibosses for EP farming, in most locations simply killing every group of enemies that pops will give you enough to spam Chronostasis. The Stagger mechanic is also way more varied but this also reflects on the limited bestiary available.

[Kachiko]

Even as a huge fanboy I was pretty underwhelmed by this one. No new good music, an incredibly small bestiary, forced cameos, fairly big plot holes, a final boss you knew you would be fighting 3 minutes into the game, a single way to beat any mob (stagger/overclock), the corniest of endings, and the constant limitation the clock puts on you that flys in the face of the history of final fantasy which is "explore and obtain everything". I liked XIII and XIII-2 a lot. Heck I grew up on the FF series. I was playing FF1 when my best friend was losing his virginity in the next room at a party. I was playing defensive tackle for a D-1A college when Locke Cole told Celes, "I will NOT let go" and after all he had been through I cried right there in the athletic dormitory common room. I camped out for VII. Played VIII after everyone else was asleep at my bachelor party. Ran my normal 5k jogging path at 3am after reading the words "Bring my beloved Dagger to me!" Played blitzball for what seemed a lifetime. Maxed multiple emps and relics. All of those friggen games were winners. It was only a matter of being good or great. And despite the linear gameplay of thirteen and the 'fingernails on chalk board' sounds of Vanille and Mog's voice in XIII-2 I still considered them good.

But this one is the first FF I've played that I just can't measure in terms of good.

I guess if I had to pick a couple of things that were great about the game it would be the tour guide playing "Clash on the Big Bridge" as a one man band and the voice actor who voices the boss in the wildlands. I would let a blind butcher cut off my pinky toes with a meat cleaver to be able to talk like that.

I think this episode of Extra Credits fits in with the current discussion. You're not going to find a lot to like in FF13 LR if you're trying to judge games on criteria present from 20 years ago, in an era of gaming where new criteria is used to create games. I'm not going to say FF13 LR strikes the right balance, but its a far stretch to say that, aside from some voice acting, there's nothing good to be found in the game.

[barber2006]

All I'm reading is "I LIKED THE MUSIC AND STORY OF XIII MORE" which is retarded because XIII-3 has mostly the same music (and the new music is good) and XIII's story has always been retarded so liking that is just...I dunno.



How is it bad? You're kneejerking hard over something you can't seem to explain. You complain about time, there's a solution so you complain about the solution which makes me think you just want to bitch about something. Probably about how this isn't FF# whatever and you miss your FFFEELZ.



It really isn't. Battle system is fun and Schematas are cool, bam, redeemed.



Don't.

I doubt I'll spend much time in conversation over a game that doesn't merit it, but I really don't think its nostalgia glasses that is the issue for me. For the last few months I've probably spent upwards of 25 hours a week playing XIV and 90 minutes of that is progression (coil). The other time is spent just doing random stuff. Hunting logs, helping people, random Primals, etc. I know an RPG to an MMO is never a perfect comparison but I really WANT the FF series to evolve and move forward. I have no interest in an HD remake of VII or whatever "bring back yesteryear" agendas people have. I spend zero hours per year replaying old games. That was one of the reason I stood up for XIII....because even though it wasn't perfect you have to move forward and do new things.

As far as the other points go....no the battle system isnt fun. Fights last like 3 seconds other than boss fights. Having the same music as its predecessors is exactly my complaint. And no, the new tracks are not good that is the reason they lean so heavily on previous tracks during essential parts of the game. And if you can't see why forcing someone to fight 999999999 gremlins just to be able to walk to the other side of the map isn't a completely ridiculous concept then then you have your head so far up Kitase's backside there is no hope of any constructive conversation. It isn't about running out of time (I slept 4 straight days at an inn at the end just to get to the last day), its about artificially limiting exploration and completion.

I didn't bring up all the FF's I've played and loved to say "I want to go back". I said it to relay the idea that they get a free pass on a ton of stuff from me. Nearly a blank check. But this game was awful in so many ways and predictable, cheesy, and shallow in others. There are so many people who didn't like it (even among the small population that liked XIII and XIII-2) that the burden of proof is squarely on anyone who says differently. There may be rationale for arguing against any of my statements individually. I'm sure with enough justification anyone can pick an isolated argument here or there apart. But there is very little in arguing FOR the quality of this game overall. Just because you want something to be good doesn't mean it is.

At 5 am I saved the game before fighting the last boss on my first playthrough and went to bed instead of staying up and finishing it as my alarm went off like I've done for countless other games because I just HAD to finish them. And that will be my one sentence review to anyone I know because they would completely understand it would take a letdown of significant proportions for me to ever do that at the end of an FF game.

[Elcura]

I like that you can post so much but say so little. Considering that you started this off with MMO vs single player RPG I think you're officially done here, and that's being very generous.

In other news I finished the game and the ending made me laugh heartily. Luckily, NG+ on hardmode coupled with that I don't have much left to platinum (surprisingly, I never go for plats but when it's this easy? why not) means I'll keep on playing.

Also want to see how much of a bitch Aeronite is on hard.

[Aerin]

I think my biggest problem with the clock is that it creates a big barrier to entry for the non-hardcore fans of the series. I suppose you could argue that since it's the 2nd sequel to a main entry, it's a given that mostly only the hardcore fans would be playing this anyway. The first 5 hours or so I absolutely hated having the clock there and was just pushing through because I'm such a fan of the series. Having to push through ~5 hours of a game to find the fun is a tall order when the general consensus is that all you have is ~5 minutes to show that to most players before they leave.

[Alkar]

I agree that the beginning of the ga,me should've been handled differently considering how hard it is to farm EP in Luxerion before certain story events. It's also true that the game allows you to go anywhere you want after a very short tutorial part.

[Tyrath]

I think my biggest problem with the clock is that it creates a big barrier to entry for the non-hardcore fans of the series. I suppose you could argue that since it's the 2nd sequel to a main entry, it's a given that mostly only the hardcore fans would be playing this anyway. .

I think you kinda answered your own thing here. Its FFXIII-3. I doubt anyone not familiar with FF or FFXIII is really gonna be getting into this.

[Exoduso]

So I get this game is meant to be played like Dark Souls of sort... but for fuck sakes I'm finally getting to a point where I'm doing decent, I blast through the entire Temple of the Goddess, and then the boss rapes me... I'm 4/5 ATM with only

Spoiler: show

Caius

left, but he seems to completely destroy me. Guess it's time to do more quests. Playing on normal and w/o the Cloud DLC btw.


Also, a question about ability synths.... I finally got the choice to upgrade them, but I have so much random abilities at this point that I'm not sure how to handle this. The customization in this game almost seems a bit too much, and I usually love it. Any specific way I should be building my Schematas? Or am I simply behind due to sheer HP/STR/MAG I need to increase by completing more side quests?

It also seems like good weapons and new garbs are scattered throughout random shops everywhere, so it's hard to say where to go to if you want to find better gear... Kind of frustrating.

[Vaspinne]

So I get this game is meant to be played like Dark Souls of sort... but for fuck sakes I'm finally getting to a point where I'm doing decent, I blast through the entire Temple of the Goddess, and then the boss rapes me... I'm 4/5 ATM with only

Spoiler: show

Caius

left, but he seems to completely destroy me. Guess it's time to do more quests. Playing on normal and w/o the Cloud DLC btw.


Also, a question about ability synths.... I finally got the choice to upgrade them, but I have so much random abilities at this point that I'm not sure how to handle this. The customization in this game almost seems a bit too much, and I usually love it. Any specific way I should be building my Schematas? Or am I simply behind due to sheer HP/STR/MAG I need to increase by completing more side quests?

It also seems like good weapons and new garbs are scattered throughout random shops everywhere, so it's hard to say where to go to if you want to find better gear... Kind of frustrating.

As far as abilities go, from what I've gathered, it's best to try and upgrade some of the main ones you'd be using most often (attack, maybe 1 of each offensive element, guard, etc, whatever you like using). From what I've seen, the big bonus to upgrading vs farming an upgraded ability is the ATB cost. IE, Upgrading Attack from level 1 to 2 and using the new level 2 will cost less ATB vs just farming and using a newly dropped level 2 ATB.

The guide book says to take the time and farm like 5 of each ability and have them ready to upgrade and shit. But man, that just seems like overkill lol. On certain days (like on day 8 I think, other days too), the level/toughness of mobs jump quite a bit. And as a result, they stop dropping level 1 abilities and only drop level 2 abilities (and after the next jump in toughness, level 3 abilities). So stock piling abilities shouldn't be too rough considering how common and easy they are to get throughout just normally playing through the game.

Garbs are the same thing AFAIK. Aside from the garbs you can only get on Hard Mode, as the mob difficulty jumps up, the types of garbs sold also increases, and the new ones are generally better then the ones originally unlocked. My mentality as far as garbs go is just buying them all as soon as I have the opportunity and when I come across a store. Obtaining gil isn't really that difficult so far, and I don't think there's a big use for gil other then for buying garbs/weapons/shields.

Also, the Helter Skelter garb was unlocked for everyone (Ignore the crappy commentary). Seems like a pretty powerful physical attack garb.

[Exoduso]

Alright I'll give it a go.
What is there to do though after you complete the five main quests? I feel like once I beat that last boss in the temple, everything else is just side questing until the final showdown, and since I can't beat said boss yet, I've been wasting days just trying to farm as many quests as possible as I go. Just got to day 7 and it still seems like nothing is really going on, hell Hope barely even has anything to say anymore

[lilbubbles]

The reason you're supposed to upgrade level 1 is because you get atb bonus going from 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 depending on the ability/spell.

You never get that bonus from one that just came that level.

So your first play though you got for QUANTITY over QUALITY.. just upgrading them with whatever auto abilities they have.

Then on hard mode when you get spells/abilities with nice chaos infused or rare auto-abilities you then synth one of the ones with the low atb cost to it for the best overall materia/spell.

[Vaspinne]

Alright I'll give it a go.
What is there to do though after you complete the five main quests? I feel like once I beat that last boss in the temple, everything else is just side questing until the final showdown, and since I can't beat said boss yet, I've been wasting days just trying to farm as many quests as possible as I go. Just got to day 7 and it still seems like nothing is really going on, hell Hope barely even has anything to say anymore

That's pretty much it. Beat the 5 main storylines, finish as many side quests as you can, farm all the mob types and beat their 'Last Ones"-version (the pink one that kills off the specie). If you do enough quests, you'll unlock an extra day that has a tower with an optional mega-boss at the end. And the more mob families you kill off before hand, the less resistance you have climbing to the boss and the more time you have to beat it (Chronostatis doesn't work on the extra day, and time flows during battle so it's like a timed-tower climb). And killing the 'Last Ones" also drop some of the strongest weapons in the game too, so it's worth hunting them down if you're the completionist type.

[Gokulo]

I forgot to farm Beat Down before Lv 1 abilities disappeared from mobs

Also, can't find the Helter Skelter NPC for my life lol, just won't appear for me.

[Elcura]

So I get this game is meant to be played like Dark Souls of sort... but for fuck sakes I'm finally getting to a point where I'm doing decent, I blast through the entire Temple of the Goddess, and then the boss rapes me... I'm 4/5 ATM with only

Spoiler: show

Caius

left, but he seems to completely destroy me. Guess it's time to do more quests. Playing on normal and w/o the Cloud DLC btw.

Equip some resistance shit (I went magic because it's harder to block perfectly), heavy guard and watch for the timing. The majority of the time as long as you push block when you see enemy action you'll be fine. Balance your schemata to make staggering easier (1 guard, 1 magic-ra, 1 attack, 1 anything) and more consistent. Save your overclocking for when you're low on ATB on all your schemata since that's when it becomes harder to block. Perfect timing on your attacks also means you can stagger faster but this can be hard to do when you're getting your shit pushed in.

If you have beggar's beads, equip them and go exterminating for some abilities to synth