Muslims, mad again

[Plow]

A coptic christian group is suspected of having helped create the film, probably through funding. Considering Egypt's history with coptic christians, that might help explain why Egypt's protests seem more wrathful.

Watch the clips of the movie. I'm not telling you based on the guy's name or, you know, lolfacts that he actually is.

Just watch the movie. It's a pissed off Jewish guy. Like, Mel Gibson if he was born in Israel.


Also, the reason people are so pissed off isn't just the fact that it's showing Mohammed, it's taking events of the Koran and portraying them from the pissed off Mel-Gibson-as-a-Jew perspective.

I.E. Mohammed married an 8 year old becomes Mohammad was molesting an 8 year old and said the Koran said it was the right thing to do and took her as his wife when caught.

You know, the sort of thing you guys would find brilliant and hilarious if it were written about Jesus regardless of if it were based in truth or not.

[AidenCarby]

Wish I could go burn shit down and fuck niggas up every time some dude thousands of miles says something I don't like, then blame it on religion to get away with it.

[ringthree]

Both parties are to blame. If you know doing something like this is going to piss people off and cause them to potentially hurt other people it's your responsibility to properly exercise your freedom.

I'm so sick of people saying that freedom of speech should be complete and total freedom to say what you want.

There's quite the difference between "our government sucks and needs to change" and "all of this religion's beliefs are based on a gay pedophile's assholery". If the shoe was on the other foot and someone in Iran made a movie where Jesus was a buttfucking child masturbator, everyone here in the states would be wanting to declare war on Islam almost immediately.

With freedoms come the responsibility to properly exercise them.

You have basically just eliminated satire from freedom of speech.

I am sorry, but those that cannot deal with the fact that other people have opinions, even odious ones, are the problem first and foremost.

[ringthree]

I can't help but feel that the people who made this movie, completely intended all of this to go down, and it's exactly what they wanted.

Claim muslims are savages and out to destroy christians > make movie to flip out muslims > point at muslim reaction as evidence for your argument

Well, then they did a pretty good job of proving their point, because they certainly acted like savages.

[Kuya]

Watch the clips of the movie. I'm not telling you based on the guy's name or, you know, lolfacts that he actually is.

Just watch the movie. It's a pissed off Jewish guy. Like, Mel Gibson if he was born in Israel.


Also, the reason people are so pissed off isn't just the fact that it's showing Mohammed, it's taking events of the Koran and portraying them from the pissed off Mel-Gibson-as-a-Jew perspective.

I.E. Mohammed married an 8 year old becomes Mohammad was molesting an 8 year old and said the Koran said it was the right thing to do and took her as his wife when caught.

You know, the sort of thing you guys would find brilliant and hilarious if it were written about Jesus regardless of if it were based in truth or not.

This is the last time i'm telling you this.

I already know that an alleged jewish person was behind the production of the film. What i am telling you is that Egypt's protests are more caustic than the others. I am supposing/hypothesizing/imagining that it might have something to do with the fact that all media is reporting that some coptic christians people were involved in the making of the movie. Egyptian muslims and coptic christians in Egypt fight a lot, although it's mostly muslims discriminating against christians.

I don't know if any coptic christians are involved in the making of this film. I am not making a statement of fact about that. I am stating that the media is reporting that coptic christians might be involved, and i am surmising that Egyptian muslims have heard of these reports.

[Shuvo]

Looking at it from a long term point of view, I think videos like these should be made more often. The Muslims need to get over it and accept the fact that free speech trumps their feelings being hurt, every time and in every instance. If this keeps happening frequently enough they'll eventually become desensitized to it and grow the fuck up.

And Americans need to get over the whole flag burning / chanting thing. It's just free speech on the other side. For the cases of actual violence, it should be highlighted that Egyption/Libyan government have men on their end being injured / killed defending the embassies (10 injured in Egypt, 10 injured/killed in Libya so far). They're Muslims too.

[ringthree]

Except there are already things like, Jesus fucking Christ. It's like saying we shouldn't make anything controversial anymore at all because it could offend said group. It just annoys me that pretty much everything sets these people off into huge riots when they CLAIM to be the religion of tolerance and peace.



So now we're going to have to start following the doctrines of other regions even though we're not part of them? Ok got it. Look at Westboro, they piss and shit hate speech but the most I've ever seen done or happen is getting a 30oz cup of coke thrown at them.

I forget off the top of my head where it was but a mentally handicap christian girl burned pages from a kids book that taught about the Qur'an and that brought a horde of Muslims into the streets wanting to stone her. She was something like 11 or 12 and their entire christian community had to flee the city. Wasn't even the actual Qur'an...

I don't totally disagree with you that people should stop poking them, but someone should stand up and say what they're doing is wrong. But no one ever will the stupid riots and stoneings and honor killings will continue.

It happened in Pakistan, and it turns out it was a Muslim cleric that set her up because he wanted to stir up hatred toward Christians in his community.

[Kuya]

Well, then they did a pretty good job of proving their point, because they certainly acted like savages.

I think that's a pretty cute tactic that speaks more about the people who made the film than the target audience.

Maybe this example will help you understand: Religious right claims that homosexuals are mentally unstable and this is why they tend to kill themselves > religious right demonizes homosexuals, alienating them > homosexuals tend to kill themselves more because of this alienation > religious right claims huzzah.

I could chide homosexuals for proving the religious right's point, but since i have perspective, i'd focus more on the person who is actually doing the inciting.

[Alvinho]

So now we're going to have to start following the doctrines of other regions even though we're not part of them? Ok got it. Look at Westboro, they piss and shit hate speech but the most I've ever seen done or happen is getting a 30oz cup of coke thrown at them.

I forget off the top of my head where it was but a mentally handicap christian girl burned pages from a kids book that taught about the Qur'an and that brought a horde of Muslims into the streets wanting to stone her. She was something like 11 or 12 and their entire christian community had to flee the city. Wasn't even the actual Qur'an...

I don't totally disagree with you that people should stop poking them, but someone should stand up and say what they're doing is wrong. But no one ever will the stupid riots and stoneings and honor killings will continue.

Don't have to follow their doctrine, just respect it, and yes, we have to respect doctrines of people from other regions, because, you know, that's what tolerance is all about. I know in this particular case, it's not reciprocal, but two wrongs don't make a right. The WBC is amusing to me. The only place they can (barely) get away with the shit they do is the US, because the general populace is educated enough to not take matters into their own hands, like it frequently happens in other nations. The WBC are just grade-a trolls, who attack anything they can just to get attention, and should be completely ignored.

I'm not familiar with the Christian girl incident, but I don't think a mentally ill child should be playing with fire. Of course we'd all expect a mentally handicapped 11 year old to not have the presence of mind to burn religious material that could potentially result into some people becoming very angry, very quickly, so maybe we should wonder if she wasn't instructed to do this by a person in full control of their mental faculties, who didn't have the balls to do it themselves, and "hid" behind this little girl. The whole story (as you told it) just doesn't add up/make sense.

People condemn these violent actions every day. Of course, they're not going to stop, but you have dudes like the Egyptian prez who is at least trying to talk some sense into his people. Could be just some , but he does deserve some credit. Making a caustic movie depicting the prophet of a group of people who are well known to have extremists who are not afraid to resort to violence very quickly as a pedophile/womanizer/thief/bastard among other things can hardly be described as "standing up to them".

Sad thing is, most, if not all of the violence in situations like this affects innocent people who had no part into causing said violence, while the inciter isn't held accountable for any of it.

[Plow]

I think that's a pretty cute tactic that speaks more about the people who made the film than the target audience.

Maybe this example will help you understand: Religious right claims that homosexuals are mentally unstable and this is why they tend to kill themselves > religious right demonizes homosexuals, alienating them > homosexuals tend to kill themselves more because of this alienation > religious right claims huzzah.

I could chide homosexuals for proving the religious right's point, but since i have perspective, i'd focus more on the person who is actually doing the inciting.

holy fuck, you are more retarded than I ever imagined


"no, your argument is wrong because I can turn it into something completely different and if it's not what it is at all it's totally a different argument"

[kuronosan]

You have basically just eliminated satire from freedom of speech.

I am sorry, but those that cannot deal with the fact that other people have opinions, even odious ones, are the problem first and foremost.

So from your point of view it's okay for the tea party to incite revolution against the evil Obama and should not accept responsibility should a bunch of idiots act on it?

Because what I'm saying isn't that people don't have a right to express their opinion through speech, I'm saying that if you know what you are saying is hateful and slanderous and will likely result in a train wreck response you should be prepared to accept responsibility for the consequences.

[ronin sparthos]

This is the last time i'm telling you this.

I already know that an alleged jewish person was behind the production of the film. What i am telling you is that Egypt's protests are more caustic than the others. I am supposing/hypothesizing/imagining that it might have something to do with the fact that all media is reporting that some coptic christians people were involved in the making of the movie. Egyptian muslims and coptic christians in Egypt fight a lot, although it's mostly muslims discriminating against christians.

I don't know if any coptic christians are involved in the making of this film. I am not making a statement of fact about that. I am stating that the media is reporting that coptic christians might be involved, and i am surmising that Egyptian muslims have heard of these reports.

It also doesn't help that the president of Egypt hasn't outright condemned the violence and his party continues to stir up shit by organizing demonstrations.

[archibaldcrane]

Muslims need to post on internet forums more. They're too easily trolled.

[AidenCarby]

The difference is if you piss off the gays all they're going to do is throw more parades where they blow each other and have sword fights with gold studded dildos. In this case, they're killing people...seems a bit much over making fun of a fictitious character in a book or making fun of their religion. We bash the Christians and Catholics here all the time and there isn't some full retard outburst of violence every single time(while I will agree there are a select few that do stupid shit in the name of JESUS) I might as well go burn down city hall when someone starts bashing Dr. Seuss

[ringthree]

I think that's a pretty cute tactic that speaks more about the people who made the film than the target audience.

Maybe this example will help you understand: Religious right claims that homosexuals are mentally unstable and this is why they tend to kill themselves > religious right demonizes homosexuals, alienating them > homosexuals tend to kill themselves more because of this alienation > religious right claims huzzah.

I could chide homosexuals for proving the religious right's point, but since i have perspective, i'd focus more on the person who is actually doing the inciting.

The problem is that your example does happen all the time, and you don't see homosexuals climbing embassy fences and killing ambassadors. Except for that one guy in DC last month.

[Plow]

So from your point of view it's okay for the tea party to incite revolution against the evil Obama and should not accept responsibility should a bunch of idiots act on it?

Because what I'm saying isn't that people don't have a right to express their opinion through speech, I'm saying that if you know what you are saying is hateful and slanderous and will likely result in a train wreck response you should be prepared to accept responsibility for the consequences.

It really depends on what you're defining as "taking responsibility." If all you care is that the guy gives his name and blah blah, that's one thing, and it's not like Sarah Palin is spewing her trash as Sadie Paula from a radio show or newspaper.

If you're talking about punishing it...

[kuronosan]

Nope, I'm asking that the guy come out and say he's the one that did it. I have no interest in whether he is punished or not.

I take issue with people who say "it was just a joke". No it wasn't. It was very much intentional with the consequences perfectly predictable.

Edit: that is to say I agree muslims need to get a sense of humor... a lot of people do. There is a huge difference between satirical and intentional inciting.

[ronin sparthos]

So from your point of view it's okay for the tea party to incite revolution against the evil Obama and should not accept responsibility should a bunch of idiots act on it?

Because what I'm saying isn't that people don't have a right to express their opinion through speech, I'm saying that if you know what you are saying is hateful and slanderous and will likely result in a train wreck response you should be prepared to accept responsibility for the consequences.

And what would that responsibility entail? Arrests? Censorship? There already are limits on freedom of speech and they are working as intended.

With or without this troll video, the people of the ME constantly protest the US whenever a leader rallies enough people to get into the streets and kill people. It is a symptom of a larger problem (the relative helplessness and poverty of the region) rather than the actions of people here in the US making low budget videos. We should not risk walking on eggshells because the Islamic world cannot come to term with the reality that everyone does not accept their ruleset as law.

That being said, freedom of speech can be abused (the creators of this video intended for violence to occur) but there is very little about it without infringing on that right to begin with. If my responses here on BG led to protests in the ME, should I be responsible for deaths? I certainly did not intend to cause people to be killed. The terms slanderous and train wreck responses are also pretty subjective.

This thread if it were to catch wind alone would probably result in protests. The people in those countries don't need much to pull down American flags and go ballistic in the streets.

[Dantrag]

Hey it's their religion so lets start practicing sharia law and we should stone our children for acting too westernized even though they grew up in the west. Yeahhhhhhh.

[Kuya]

The difference is if you piss off the gays all they're going to do is throw more parades where they blow each other and have sword fights with gold studded dildos. In this case, they're killing people...seems a bit much over making fun of a fictitious character in a book or making fun of their religion. We bash the Christians and Catholics here all the time and there isn't some full retard outburst of violence every single time(while I will agree there are a select few that do stupid shit in the name of JESUS) I might as well go burn down city hall when someone starts bashing Dr. Seuss

That's the problem really. Even you though you realize that the conflict between the US/Israel vs. Muslim countries isn't symmetrical. That the arab countries aren't the ones meddling in other regions in order to secure energy resources. It's moments like these that make it hard to defend muslims, because they're so damn religious. This kind of stuff doesn't happen in places like Europe because they're more secular (US isn't really that secular). What makes the Middle East troublesome is the fact that it is so full of religious fanaticism, plus a feeling among people there that the US is out to destroy their culture.

Unfortunately it's unrealistic to expect an entire population to behave in poise and moderation, especially when they live a different reality than you. My problem is how anti-muslim groups and neo-cons use these sorts of things as excuses to persecute muslims and motivate more meddling in the Middle East. It's self-serving. I wish muslims were a vulcan mind meld that considered how bad this stuff makes them look in the media, but that's not a wish i'm getting. It's clear that muslims need to mellow out, but that won't happen until conditions in the Middle East allow for a more secular culture. While you can look at Europe as an example of that sort of secularism, the US is another matter. The US isn't really secular, so the issue there is that the religious right has political power and it can act via political institutions rather than screeching in the streets and burning puppets of Dawkins.

I would call attention to the way people see muslims protesting, and the way some people saw the Occupy protesters.

The problem is that your example does happen all the time, and you don't see homosexuals climbing embassy fences and killing ambassadors. Except for that one guy in DC last month.

The people protesting the film in Libya did not kill the ambassadors.