Muslims, mad again

[ronin sparthos]

The difference is if you piss off the gays all they're going to do is throw more parades where they blow each other and have sword fights with gold studded dildos. In this case, they're killing people...seems a bit much over making fun of a fictitious character in a book or making fun of their religion. We bash the Christians and Catholics here all the time and there isn't some full retard outburst of violence every single time(while I will agree there are a select few that do stupid shit in the name of JESUS) I might as well go burn down city hall when someone starts bashing Dr. Seuss

The believers don't believe it's myth? Cmon, lets be serious here.

You can't compare Christianity or Catholicism to Islam because they are at different points in time. The icy grip of Christendom has waned in recent years but 400 years ago at the height of hyper-religiousness? Hell yes Christians would be doing the same stupid violent shit Islam is doing right now. That's why it's amusing to me when Christianity tries to take credit as being more "cultured" (largely due to secularizing forces) even as some of the very same individuals take steps to revert back to the very state Islam is in.

Given time, Islam will mellow out. The advent of the Internet will expedite the process and regardless of how offended the people get violence isn't the answer.

What we should be more concerned with is the fact that these protests aren't caused by just religiosity.

[Tagus]

It's moments like these that make it hard to defend muslims, because they're so damn religious. This kind of stuff doesn't happen in places like Europe because they're more secular (US isn't really that secular). What makes the Middle East troublesome is the fact that it is so full of religious fanaticism, plus a feeling among people there that the US is out to destroy their culture.

Unfortunately it's unrealistic to expect an entire population to behave in poise and moderation, especially when they live a different reality than you. My problem is how anti-muslim groups and neo-cons use these sorts of things as excuses to persecute muslims and motivate more meddling in the Middle East. It's self-serving. I wish muslims were a vulcan mind meld that considered how bad this stuff makes them look in the media, but that's not a wish i'm getting. It's clear that muslims need to mellow out, but that won't happen until conditions in the Middle East allow for a more secular culture. While you can look at Europe as an example of that sort of secularism, the US is another matter. The US isn't really secular, so the issue there is that the religious right has political power and it can act via political institutions rather than screeching in the treats and burning puppets of Dawkins.

I would call attention to the way people see muslims protesting, and the way some people saw the Occupy protesters.
The people protesting the film in Libya did not kill the ambassadors.

You know, I haven't always agreed with you, but this is really a great statement. Problem is, they really do deserve a certain amount of persecution for actions like these because you know the culture isn't going to police itself... and the level that they get carried away to is just fucking stupid.

[Plow]

There is a huge difference between satirical and intentional inciting.

You're right... and this is satire, not "fighting words."

What you're pointing out is exactly the problem here... making a movie saying a person, or a prophet, or even a god, is shitty, should not be retaliated to by violence even against the people directly responsible, let alone people that have absolutely nothing to do with it.

[kuronosan]

You're right... and this is satire, not "fighting words."

What you're pointing out is exactly the problem here... making a movie saying a person, or a prophet, or even a god, is shitty, should not be retaliated to by violence even against the people directly responsible, let alone people that have absolutely nothing to do with it.

I'm aware of that, and I would accept that if the person was expressing an opinion and was ignorant to the consequences. They knew what they were doing and it was pre-meditated. It's not like they said "let's make a dumb movie, the Muslims might get the joke this time".

I'm in agreement that Muslims (and a lot of people in general) need to mellow the fuck out, because violence is not the answer. Egging it on isn't the answer either. If you know a dog is likely to bite you if you smack it in the nose enough times, are you going to smack it in the nose or are you going to find a different way to approach it?

[Dimmauk]

This thread is amazing. I loved the white knighting of Muslims that are killing people. If they want to burn flags, and shout death to America, then I'm cool with that. But murdering someone over a movie is beyond retarded. Btw, I'd be mad too. If they someone is going to make a Mohammed movie, at least spend some money on production. Does it even have a soundtrack on iTunes?

[Tagus]

idk Kuro... I'm trying to think of a taboo in US society, and the word nigger is the best I can come up with. I'd never walk up to a black dude and call him a nigger, but I've used the word on the forums a bunch of times. Does that mean that if a black dude read it here, and walked up to a white dude on the street and punched him in the face, that it was my fault?

You have to hold people responsible for their individual actions.

[Plow]

I'm aware of that, and I would accept that if the person was expressing an opinion and was ignorant to the consequences. They knew what they were doing and it was pre-meditated. It's not like they said "let's make a dumb movie, the Muslims might get the joke this time".

I'm in agreement that Muslims (and a lot of people in general) need to mellow the fuck out, because violence is not the answer. Egging it on isn't the answer either. If you know a dog is likely to bite you if you smack it in the nose enough times, are you going to smack it in the nose or are you going to find a different way to approach it?

We're not talking about smacking them in the nose. We're talking about making a movie about their religion.

It's unacceptable that violence is the response. I don't agree with drawing pictures of Mohammed just because people don't want you to.

But it's horribly wrong that violence succeeds in achieving the censorship they desire. This movie should be no big deal, and that's exactly the point.

[kuronosan]

idk Kuro... I'm trying to think of a taboo in US society, and the word nigger is the best I can come up with. I'd never walk up to a black dude and call him a nigger, but I've used the word on the forums a bunch of times. Does that mean that if a black dude read it here, and walked up to a white dude on the street and punched him in the face, that it was my fault?

You have to hold people responsible for their individual actions.

Nope, but I am saying if you walk into Harlem and call a black guy a nigger and he shoots you it's not just his fault. I'm not saying he's in the right and justified with the response. I'm saying you shouldn't be surprised. I'm also saying that while you should be able to speak your mind there's such a thing as being mindful.

I'm also not white knighting. Make all the movies you want. Just don't be surprised at the outcome if it's what you knew would be likely.

[ronin sparthos]

Nope, but I am saying if you walk into Harlem and call a black guy a nigger and he shoots you it's not just his fault. I'm not saying he's in the right and justified with the response. I'm saying you shouldn't be surprised. I'm also saying that while you should be able to speak your mind there's such a thing as being mindful.

I'm also not white knighting. Make all the movies you want. Just don't be surprised at the outcome if it's what you knew would be likely.

The problem is that while in this case the depiction of the prophet was intentionally designed to troll/offend Islam, that doesn't stop those protesters from going apeshit when ANYTHING that doesn't fall in line with their interpretation of Islam comes their way and it happens often enough in the ME.

Anything outside abject subservience is considered offensive to such individuals. Your disbelief is offensive. Moderate Muslims are offensive. Your existence is considered offensive. You can't compare calling someone "nigger" to protesters of this caliber because in the former you can attempt to moderate yourself while in the latter nothing outside becoming their brand of Muslim will suffice.

There is no appeasement plan here for people so detatched from reality. They will continue to kill and destroy so long as they have nothing to do and are so deeply indoctrinated in that strain of faith. Most of the protesters are either bored as fuck young people or hyper-religious Muslims with dreams of world conquest.

[Acevalefor]

Be mindful of your thoughts Anakin. Thoughts of anger and resentment can lead to the dark side. Then people will start killing in the name of the dark side and other people will say it's not their fault because they were incited by the evil Sith.

[Tagus]

Nope, but I am saying if you walk into Harlem and call a black guy a nigger and he shoots you it's not just his fault. I'm not saying he's in the right and justified with the response. I'm saying you shouldn't be surprised. I'm also saying that while you should be able to speak your mind there's such a thing as being mindful.

I'm also not white knighting. Make all the movies you want. Just don't be surprised at the outcome if it's what you knew would be likely.

haha... well, it was kind of a bad analogy. Problem is, if Muslims are pretty much just murderous knee-jerk reactionists to that level, they deserve criticism for that.

[Mugekuge]

I find stupid/suicidal of the director, writer of the movie that you are going to make muslisms upset about this and you know they will try to kill you (like Salman Rushdie).

[kuronosan]

Sorry, it just sounds a lot to me like people are saying Muslims are the problem. People are the problem.

[AidenCarby]

Both sides are wrong, one just happens to be more wrong than the other.

[Ksandra]

Kuya is 100% correct about the muslim-coptic issue in Egypt. My family over there is Coptic, and their kids to this day are beaten up in schools over it with the teachers watching and doing nothing. The muslim community do not want the Coptics there at all, and the only reason why there are still any left is because for the most part the presidents have protected them (but just barely enough so that they don't just all get shot). It really doesn't matter to them at all who made the movie. If they can blame the Coptics, they will.

I'm not familiar with the Christian girl incident, but I don't think a mentally ill child should be playing with fire.

Welcome to the middle east. One of my cousins has a picture on his facebook with his two children sitting next to a lion he's hugging.....they are not really up on the whole safety thing most modern countries are hahaha -.- (and this is with one of my cousins having only 2 fingers on one hand, because when he was young he was feeding a gorilla at the zoo and it bit the other ones off)

oh, and I know they were just examples, but I highly doubt muslims would ever depict Jesus in a negative way.

lastly, really sad (but not surprised) of the president's reaction to this. I think kuya hit it on the head, there will never be change over there until the fanaticism goes away.

[kuronosan]

My point is you can say that about ANY religion or established system. The focal point of this thread seems to be that Muslims are more likely to do it, which sounds like stereotypical prejudice to me.

[Plow]

Nope, but I am saying if you walk into Harlem and call a black guy a nigger and he shoots you it's not just his fault. I'm not saying he's in the right and justified with the response. I'm saying you shouldn't be surprised. I'm also saying that while you should be able to speak your mind there's such a thing as being mindful.

I'm also not white knighting. Make all the movies you want. Just don't be surprised at the outcome if it's what you knew would be likely.

I'm sorry but if you kill someone because they called you a name, it's your fucking fault, that's just plain stupid to argue otherwise.

[Ksandra]

Guy who made the film looks to live in Cerritos, CA:

A man who claims to have made the movie suspected of sparking the outrage and demonstrations that turned violent in Cairo and Libya and led to the slayings of the U.S. Ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens and three others apparently has ties to the city of Cerritos.

In a phone interview with The Wall Street Journal late Tuesday, a California real-estate developer who identified himself as 52-year-old Israeli-American Sam Bacile said he made the film -- "Muhammad Movie Trailer" (also referred to as the "Innocence of Muslims") -- and was backed by Jewish donors.

The low budget 14-minute trailer, which was posted on YouTube in early July under an account listed as "Sam Bacile", includes vulgar and offensive scenes that insult and mock the life of the Prophet Muhammad. Portions of the actors lines also seem to have been poorly edited and dubbed over with voiceovers in post-production -- something that has left one of the actors threatening to sue the filmmaker.

According to the WSJ, a records search performed on Wednesday turned up no references to anyone in the U.S. by the name Sam Bacile. The cell phone number used in the initial phone interview, the WSJ reports, was registered to a user at a home in Cerritos but the number had since been disconnected.

Cerritos Home Draws Heavy Police and Media Presence Wednesday Night

A local resident informed Patch that at about 8 p.m. on Wednesday night, several members of the media along with Cerritos sheriff's deputies were converged at a residence located south of 166th Street and Bloomfield Avenue, where the alleged filmmaker may reside. Calls to the Cerritos Sheriff's Station questioning reports of the filmmaker's possible ties to the city were deferred to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Headquarters Bureau, which as of about 5:30 a.m. had no official comment on the matter. Media outlets from all over the world were reportedly bombarding the Cerritos Station with calls starting late Wednesday night.

A public records search performed by Patch of the Cerritos residence in question shows ties to the name Nakoula Basseley Nakoula.

The WSJ reported that a young man who answered the door at that home on Wednesday afternoon said a man named Nakoula B. Nakoula lived there. But when another man answered the door at other times that same day, he said no one by that name lived there.

The Associated Press, however, reported early Thursday that it had tracked down Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, who admitted to helping with logistics for the film, but he denied directing it. Nakoula also told the AP that he knew the self-described filmmaker, Sam Bacile.

Nakoula further denied posing as Bacile, although when he offered his driver's license to show his identity he kept his thumb over his middle name, Basseley, according to the AP.

Southland Muslim Leaders Condemn Film

Southern California Muslim leaders have condemned the slaying of the U.S. ambassador and the three foreign service workers as well as the film implicated at the heart of the outrage.

"It is certainly not a random act,'' Hussam Ayloush, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said of the movie at a news conference in Anaheim Wednesday.

The movie "lacks any intellectual basis,'' Ayloush said. "It only includes vulgar and offensive scenes to incite and provoke such behavior from those who lack rationality in dealing with hate messages."

"The extremists who produced the movie threw bait and the extremist Muslims took the bait,'' he said.

The movie and the reaction to it show "a conflict (between) people who believe religion unites us versus those who use and abuse religion to promote their narrow agendas of hate and extremism,'' Ayloush said.

http://cerritos.patch.com/articles/s...topher-stevens

Couldn't youtube source the IP for the guy that uploaded it?

[Plow]

My point is you can say that about ANY religion or established system. The focal point of this thread seems to be that Muslims are more likely to do it, which sounds like stereotypical prejudice to me.

Would you blame Matt and Trey if Scientologists rioted over the south park episode?

Would you be surprised if they killed someone over it?


Having answered those questions, consider the fact that you're saying it's the guy who made the movie's fault because he should have known the response... and then finger pointing at other people for presuming Islam to be violent.

[Andalusian girls]

didn't South Park have an episode with Jesus shitting all over the American flag and then president Bush

but no yeah Christians totally reacted the same way why only disparage Islamists

it's not like they explode themselves with numbing regularity to murder civilians

or kill people over cartoons

or whip rape victims