Stewart vs. O'Reilly

[Rhyis.]

Civil duty, and I think it would make regular citizens more likely to be responsible with guns in general... And you yanks need that badly.

[Caiyuo]

It's not that horribly uncommon of a position and it doesn't necessarily seem like a bad idea to me. A friend in Switzerland really enjoyed her service. I don't know if they give options between military or community or an Americorps equivalent or not, though.

Watched the debate a little earlier, I think the overall tone was that Jon wasn't bullshitting in his answers but that Bill was able to defend his positions by continuing his "I'm not the Republican party" stance when that was more the target Jon was arguing against. Would've preferred a scenario where the moderator offers them a topic and just lets them continue it unless it gets circular and then moves on instead of preserving the format and ending half-completed discussions.

[Athas]

I was very surprised that Jon was pro military draft.

It's a position he's said before, as a political deterrent from war. He's argued that the Bush administration wouldn't have sold the Iraq war had there been a draft.

[Palin]

And North Korea.

And most of Scandinavian.

[Cleverness]

Watched the debate a little earlier, I think the overall tone was that Jon wasn't bullshitting in his answers but that Bill was able to defend his positions by continuing his "I'm not the Republican party" stance when that was more the target Jon was arguing against. Would've preferred a scenario where the moderator offers them a topic and just lets them continue it unless it gets circular and then moves on instead of preserving the format and ending half-completed discussions.

Alot of this falls on Jon not really attacking appropriately when he did. Like I enjoyed his comment on Bill's dad but he also didn't bring up the increase in disability claims arising from people not being able to retire as planned once the financial crisis occurred, and the increase in claims overall from people during this period of time due to the crisis. While EXTREMELY difficult, it's not impossible for people to cheat the system and get on to Social Security. While I don't agree with his whole "Bush is gone, stop bringing him up" stance, when it comes to things Obama could have done to bring in more revenue, like the tax breaks the oil companies currently receive for example. He mentioned this during the debate but there was nothing stopping him from attempting these things before. He used the financial crisis as an excuse in an interview with Jorge Ramos on why he broke his promise for Immigration Reform for his first term, but then something that should directly effect financial reform like big corporate tax breaks should have come up as something he could have addressed. But of course then he wouldn't get reelected for a 2nd term most likely.

And the Obamacare leading to less jobs being available is a point both he and Romney have made before(Romney made it in his interview with Jorge Ramos awhile back, I do not know if he has kept that view to this time)that I find silly after learning about the insurance industry myself after getting licensed. It does nothing to discourage private insurance purchases by a small business, or even ones currently offered by the state, it just mandates that those who got by not providing health insurance, which lead to our countries high uninsured rate, they now have to do so.

While it varies from state to state, in NY State for example, in the scenario Bill presented where they can lower salary due to increase in job demand but a decrease in the supply of jobs, many small business employees can qualify for the Healthy New York group health insurance for small business. Only 50% of employees have to elect to opt in for those health insurance(meaning if you are covered by a spouse or family members plan from their job, you don't have to pay), the employer will pay half of the monthly premiums, and you only need at least 1 person working 20+ hours and earning less than 40k to qualify for this group plan, with employees numbering 1-50. This is such an easy option to achieve in this state by many small businesses that those who choose not to elect for it but instead decide to wait for the enforcement of Obamacare makes no sense to me. If everyone is earning 50k+ then it's not impossible to be able to afford a private plan, but if not just hire some handful of assistants/receptionist/whatever that work 25~ hours a week, they automatically have to opt in and 50% of the regular employees have to opt in and you could still qualify. This is obviously an example of just NYS that I got from reviewing the guidelines on their website, i'm not sure if other states offer similar options. I'm also unaware if the Obamacare 2014 mandate of not excluding pre-existing conditions, since I'm pretty sure the 1 year wait for being able to qualify for Healthy NY after having a previous provider is to avoid groups adverse selecting with pre-existing conditions that they don't want to start paying for off the bat.

The people who do not like this policy are those who blatantly schedule people to work less than x hours a week, x being below whatever the current guideline is to qualify for health care, 20 here iirc, so they don't have to offer insurance(retailers mostly). Which is lovely for their profit but sucks for everyone else that now possibly makes more than the Medicaid guidelines but don't work enough to qualify for work healthcare. So the retailers with a large workforce of part time workers can now possibly be targeted if the total amount of hours the part time staff works exceeds a certain amount, to be equivalent to a full time staff working equivalent hours in the same period of time. Of course they could fire some part time staff to get below these guidelines to avoid paying for insurance, which is likely to be what they do. Because Health Care here isn't affordable without insurance, but fuck giving people an insurance plan if they can help it.

[Bregor]

Yea that's what I meant, not sure why I said draft.
You know who else has mandatory military service? IRAN

And Israel

And North Korea.

And most of Scandinavian.

And South Korea.

[Pirian]

Nothing says "freedom" like compulsory military service

[Plow]

I don't know why Stewart never went for the obvious answer to the whole arthritis thing; the economic crash forced a lot of seniors back to work.

or the fact that the biggest generation thus far is all starting to hit the age where arthritis kicks in

just think, baby boomers are getting there now, that means in 15-20 years gen x is all going to get there and if a republican is in office we can blame it on them!

I've only watched like 40 minutes so far, pretty disappointed tbh. O'Reilly not even trying to debate, he's just trying to fox the place up.

[Plow]

also stewart seemed completely unwilling to say "what bush did matters because Romney wants to do THE EXACT SAME THING," and I don't understand why... but it left foxtards way too much room to convince themselves o'reilly is right

[noblemountain]

I think the idea of 1 or 2 years of service in Americorps or something similar would do wonders for this country. You get these small minded people out of their tiny hometowns and into the real world to see what it's like and things could really change. I think a 2 year service with 2 years of free college after would change a lot of things.

[Aevis]

It's not that horribly uncommon of a position and it doesn't necessarily seem like a bad idea to me. A friend in Switzerland really enjoyed her service. I don't know if they give options between military or community or an Americorps equivalent or not, though.

I'm Swiss and finished my service a couple weeks ago. Basically, every Swiss male has to serve a total of 260 days. Once you turn 18, they call you for a /fit check and to decide, which branch to take on. If you do qualify, you still can opt out by simply filling out an application for community service. If you don't qualify (health problems / completly nuts), you get checked for civil service.

Now for those 260 days of service: Basic training (boot camp?) takes 21 weeks and counts to those 260 days. Each saturday morning, you can leave and have to come back on sunday evening. Sometimes, they let you go on friday evening, if you did good at shooting tests or w/e. After those 21 weeks, you have to serve 3-4 weeks annually in a so called "refresher course". Although the dates for these are strict, you can postpone them if you're needed at work, exams started etc. Nowadays, you're usually done by the age of 26/27 and put into reserve.

Alternatively, you can serve those 260 days at one swoop if you want.

[Mazmaz]

Yea, let's just take 1 or 2 years of people's lives away after they graduate high school.

[Churchill]

Says the person it would benefit.

[tyven]

Yea, let's just take 1 or 2 years of people's lives away after they graduate high school.

You are the best troll

[Yugl]

What is the benefit exactly?

[Churchill]

Maz being beaten to death in his rack

[arus2001]

Not for the draft or mandatory civil service. Seen plenty of assholes enter the military and come back still assholes, only they go on to justify being assholes because they served. So, that whole "good for people" thing isn't a constant by any stretch. I had enough forced community service when my school took a day for the senior class to clean up some old lady's yard where the girls just stood chatting in the corner while most of the other guys just pretended to be working with a few actually busting their ass. A curious reflection of actual workplaces, that.

[Blubbartron]

Not for the draft or mandatory civil service. Seen plenty of assholes enter the military and come back still assholes, only they go on to justify being assholes because they served. So, that whole "good for people" thing isn't a constant by any stretch. I had enough forced community service when my school took a day for the senior class to clean up some old lady's yard where the girls just stood chatting in the corner while most of the other guys just pretended to be working with a few actually busting their ass. A curious reflection of actual workplaces, that.

Lots of this. In order to graduate, my high school had a mandatory 40 hours of volunteering/community service. I ended up getting my mom's boyscout friends to sign off that I had helped at some haunted camp thing when in fact I was mostly there to enjoy it. The number of people that stuff like this has a positive effect on is FAR outweighed by the time lost to everyone else who could actually be doing something productive or useful for their future.

[Jaybar]

The number of people that stuff like this has a positive effect on is FAR outweighed by the time lost to everyone else who could actually be doing something productive or useful for their future.

It sounds like they don't want to be productive nor have the work ethic to do so. Unless they want to be accountants I guess.

[Hatedregret]

Yeah, you all seem to think slacking off and chatting in a corner is possible in armed forces as if it's a high school classroom. I think it could do wonders for the majority. Of course there will be fucktards before, during and after, but wiping the gene pool just isn't an option. Nothing can affect everyone the same way. It would teach discipline and leadership to those who were willing though.