BG Car troubles - any ideas?

[Orden]

So I have a car sitting in my driveway that's been sitting for maybe 3 months. It worked fine 3 months ago when I was using it to go back and forth to work. But recently when I tried to start it it wouldn't. I assumed it was the battery and went to get the battery charged but when I put it in it still wouldn't start. I had a buddy come over and take a look at it and he took a look at the starter, I think he changed it. I'm not sure I wasn't really hovering. It made a tiny noise but then wouldn't start. Now, 3 months ago everything worked, but now when I connect the battery (which I leave unconnected unless I'm working on it, the door beeps but none of the other things work (i.e. the radio, the lights, the rpm backlights, etc.)

What do you guys think it could be? I'm planning on sacking up and looking for a job again and I'm really set on fixing this car myself so I have reliable transportation to and from work.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...34/739/fa5.jpg

It's an old 1998 Saturn SL2.

[izembo]

alternator?

[Fr34k]

The alternator isn't going to prevent the car from starting if it's a new battery, it's just going to kill the battery after driving for a while. I would check your fusebox and see if the main fuse blew. Sounds like you have an aftermarket alarm that is wired straight to the battery which is making the door chimes, but if the main fuse is blown you won't have power to anything else.

Edit: Oh and I have a 95 SC1 so yea check that first. Should be in the fusebox in the engine bay.

[cosworthrs]

did you say you got a new battery or just had the battery charged? if just charged well.....the fact that you are saying the door chimes but none of the lights or radio etc etc come on leads me to believe the battery is 99% dead

[Fr34k]

did you say you got a new battery or just had the battery charged? if just charged well.....the fact that you are saying the door chimes but none of the lights or radio etc etc come on leads me to believe the battery is 99% dead

Read the OP wrong, if you have a regular wet cell led acid battery, if it died it is not going to hold a charge again. You're going to need a new battery, not to just recharge it. Unless you have a Gel or AGM style battery like an Optima, replace the battery and it should start right up.

[Orden]

My fusebox.

Spoiler: show

I have no idea

I checked the top fusebox at it and there was one sticking out so I put it back in but it didn't seem to do much. There's one underneath that I'll have to borrow some jack stands from a buddy before I can take a look at it.

[Orden]

Read the OP wrong, if you have a regular wet cell led acid battery, if it died it is not going to hold a charge again. You're going to need a new battery, not to just recharge it. Unless you have a Gel or AGM style battery like an Optima, replace the battery and it should start right up.

I replaced my battery like 6 months ago or something. Are you telling me I should get a new new one? X_X

[Fr34k]

Yup, when lead acid car batteries sit without charge for a few months they slowly start to die. Your alternator is there to charge the battery while the car is running. Unfortunately those batteries can't be hold a charge after being drained. If you want to test this, have someone jump start your car. If it starts, it was your battery. You should be able to drive it assuming your alternator hasn't gone bad, but the next time you turn your car off you're probably going to need someone to jump start you again.

If you have an Autozone or Checkers or anything like that near you, take the battery in and have them load test it. It should tell you it's resting voltage, cranking amps (CA), etc and will let you know if it's dead or not.

[Brill Weave]

If you have AAA call them for battery service. They will come out and test the battery as well as the starter/alternator free of charge.

[Moss]

If your battery is the problem and you have only had it for 6 months, it may still be under warranty which will get your monies back.

[Orden]

So I'll see if I can get it jumped tomorrow, I'll see if it's under warranty, and also call AAA. Thanks a bunch guys. I'm not sure what it is but I have a battle plan.

[Furionstormrage]

If you take the battery to any Autozone or Advance or any auto parts store, they can test it for free and tell you if it's good or bad. That's the most likely reason your car won't start. Letting a car sit is the worst thing you can do, if nothing else just start it up and drive it around the block every other week or so.

[Acevalefor]

Yup, when lead acid car batteries sit without charge for a few months they slowly start to die. Your alternator is there to charge the battery while the car is running. Unfortunately those batteries can't be hold a charge after being drained. If you want to test this, have someone jump start your car. If it starts, it was your battery. You should be able to drive it assuming your alternator hasn't gone bad, but the next time you turn your car off you're probably going to need someone to jump start you again.

If you have an Autozone or Checkers or anything like that near you, take the battery in and have them load test it. It should tell you it's resting voltage, cranking amps (CA), etc and will let you know if it's dead or not.

Err...please do your homework before saying stuff like this. You are only partially right in that lead-acid batteries will drain while sitting from environmental conditions and grounding. This is why batteries should never be stored on the ground or any surface that is conductive. However, lead-acid batteries can be recharged if they are just discharged. As long as there is little or no sulfation on the cells, they can be charged using any trickle charger at around 2-4amps. There are other ways to deal with sulfation (like high amperage charge followed by low amperage charge) but that is probably the least of his worries. Corrosion can cause more problems than a dead battery will cause because you can get enough amperage through corroded wires to run stuff like the radio, windows, door locks, interior lights, etc. but you won't be able to start the car.

There are many other variables as well.

For the OP: One thing many manufacturers are known for is starter interlocks on their cars. If your battery has been disconnected, there is usually a relay that needs to be reset. In your case, it looks like you have an after-market alarm system. Check out the manual on that and make sure there is not a battery/starter interlock as a part of that thing as well as any stock Saturn security features that could cause the car to not start. Before you go crazy on anything, you should check the battery, starter, and alternator at the contacts using a voltmeter to ensure there is 12 volts in all three places. The battery and alternator will show voltage with the key on (the battery will always show voltage) but the starter will have to be checked while someone is turning the key as if they are starting it. Take a look at http://www.saturnfans.com or http://www.carforum.net for some much more useful info than I could ever give you. After all the usual fuse/relay/interlock/voltage checks have been done, start checking for mechanical problems like stuck starter (Hammers are great for jarring the starter loose if it is stuck due to rust/corrosion. But it is a temporary fix and you will need to replace the starter if that is the problem.), missing/broken wires (rats come to mind), corrosion on the terminals or wires, etc.

There are not that many problems that can cause a car to not at least turn over. It will be one of the things I mentioned above.

Also, I work part-time for a AAA battery service contractor. I used to work full time doing it for 4 years. It's a great place to start because they will check all the things I talked about and usually identify your problem within 10-15 minutes. The whole diagnostic process takes 25 minutes or less. If you are not comfortable doing this stuff yourself, even a non-member call to AAA only costs you a fraction of what it would cost at a mechanic.

[Fr34k]

I've been working on cars and installing sound systems for 5 years now, so I know from experience that when wet cell batteries lose charge they tend to not hold their charge and need to constantly be jumped. The longer it sits, the lower the water level gets and the more the plates start to sulfate. So yes, once the battery drains and is the plates are sulfated the battery is not going to hold a charge. I've heard nothing but mixed reviews about battery chargers with desulfate features. The fact of the matter is once the plates start to sulfate, they will never hold a charge like they used to, the performance of the battery will be reduced. Also maybe you should do your homework, because sitting a battery on the ground has absolutely nothing to do with it losing charge. That's why there is a plastic casing.

"Today’s Technology
For more than a decade, automotive and commercial battery containers have been made of polypropylene, which is a highly insulative material. In fact, the Interstate Batteries poly material is at least five times more insulative than the old hard rubber. Also, tremendous technological improvements have been made in the seals around the posts and the vent systems, which have virtually eliminated electrolyte seepage and migration.

Battery Discharging
The fact is, all batteries self- discharge whether they’re sitting on the shelf or on concrete. This is why we regularly rotate your inventory. As the temperature increases, a battery’s self-discharge level also increases. Some lead acid batteries discharge 4% - 8% per month at a temperature of 80°F. The level of self-discharge is also contingent upon the type of lead plate alloy plus the age and cleanliness of the battery.

If the battery has a surface layer of acid or grime, which is electrically conductive, it self-discharges more rapidly. This surface layer may actually allow you to measure the DC voltage across the battery’s poly case (using a 10 meg-ohm digital voltmeter). For that reason, we recommend that you always keep batteries clean, whether they’re in storage or in a vehicle."

http://www.thebatteryterminal.com/Te...n_Concrete.htm

Also the best charging method is Constant Voltage Constant Amperage (CVCA)

[Orden]

This is a late update but I tried to get my car jumped to no avail. I called AAA and my battery doesn't crank but even with a jump it doesn't start. I'm gonna get it checked out by a buddy sometimes this weekend hopefully. It's probably the alternator. Maybe. I don't know about cars. My battery is under warranty at walmart so I can good with that. When the batter was hooked up to the AAA truck everything worked except the actual starting itself, including the alarm which I don''t have the remote to.

[Fr34k]

The alternator has nothing to do with getting the car to start, the battery alone is what holds the energy to turn the engine over. The alternator is there to recharge your battery because it lost some charge due to starting the car, and also to provide power for the electronics in your car while the engine is running.

If you were driving the car daily and it just didn't start one day, then I would say that your alternator went bad. But since it was sitting for 3 months I'm willing to bet the battery drained, and it is no longer holding a charge (like I mentioned earlier and Ace tried to say I was wrong). If you can take it to a Checkers or Autozone they can run a diagnostic on the battery and tell you for sure if that is your problem. I would try to get the battery warrantied, that should get your car started unless your starter is also bad. I would say that is unlikely unless you were having problems while you were still driving the car.

[Acevalefor]

I did not try to tell you that you were wrong. I said to read up on how batteries work. That little bit on "virtually eliminates electrolyte seepage..." is called marketing bullshit. It is evident in just about any car more than a year old. Just look at the battery and tell me there isn't sulfuric acid residue. The battery can be recharged under most circumstances. 3 months is not normally long enough to ruin a battery. Especially 3 summer months. You may be right about the battery being toast. I am saying that is not normally the case after just 3 months so don't jump to that scenario as a first step when it has the potential to cost the guy over $100.

Just because the technology has the potential to solve a problem doesn't mean that technology is used. Lead-acid batteries are negative-earth charged. If you set your battery on a well grounded surface (like the ground) it will discharge faster than it would if it was on a rubber rack or on a wood pallet.

OP: The AAA guy should have tested the battery and given you a printed readout of the test results. He should have also tested the alternator as part of the diagnostics. If you are still not sure that it isn't the alternator, then the AAA tech didn't do his job. We can test everything except the starter with our equipment when it comes to no-start conditions. And even the starter can be checked with a voltmeter to see if it is getting enough voltage to start. We can also check the resistance of the wires. Part of the battery test is to check the Cranking Amps (CA) of the battery to see if there is enough amperage getting to the starter. Between those two tests, a AAA tech should have been able to point to the starter as suspect or ruled it out completely.

Since the AAA tech didn't do his job, go to any auto parts store as Freak mentioned and get the battery tested there. Or just go to Wal-mart and they will honor the warranty no questions asked. Then you can rule out the battery altogether.

[Brill Weave]

Sometimes it just depends on the tech. We have some guys that will only do the battery test and not the member test since it takes longer. Did he check for corrosion on the terminals? Did he check to see if they were tight? Sometimes it can be something as simple as that. What series battery is the 98 SL2 Ace? My books says we didn't start providing batteries for that make until 2001 and then it would be the 75 series. Just my own curiosity.

Does your car have a name brand battery or an economy class battery? Economy class batteries have a notoriously shorter lifespan(though definitely not 3 months.)

[Acevalefor]

You are correct Brill. It is the 75 series. Should fit the hold-downs perfectly. The 98 has the same battery tray as the 2001 so unless there is something weird like reversed cables or air filter placement issues, it would be the same battery.

AAA Oregon-Idaho doesn't allow the drivers the discretion to not run the member test. You run the test every time all the way through unless the battery is fried or there is some major mechanical problem preventing the test. Or the member flat out declines the test. If you do not run the test and provide a test code to dispatch when closing the call, your reason better be a good one or the call only gets half pay. Different clubs allow different levels of autonomy to the drivers though.

[Fr34k]

I replaced my 95 with a 34/78, I don't remember if that was the original size but I know it was damn close and it's easier to find used Optimas in that size anyways. I agree thought that they should have given a print out of the battery CA, voltage, etc when AAA came.