Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Fwahm]

With the defense change, is Aegis Schism + Berserk/Last Resort going to make you take thousands of damage in dynamis? Sounds fun.

[Chamaan]

Onehanders were cock of the walk for such a long time before ToAU. A war with an axe and a ridill/joyeuse (or double swords) was king of shitmountain unless you were talking pre-haste cap/kraken drk. There was almost no point to using a twohanded weapon, with their long delays, until we got things like hasso and large amounts of easily gained haste. The only reason to ever use a GAxe as a war was if you were /thf and tricking WS onto a couple of plds bouncing hate.

[Sho]

Nah 1h have pretty much always sucked endgame, even back in 2003/2004. You didn't see WARs Rampaging or NINs Jinning JOrmugand or Tiamat(unless they're tanking, and for lack of anything better really unless main hand sword for Spirits) because it would be a whiff fest and for double digit damage. I mostly remember 2h DDs going /THF and SATA on a PLD for SC orders or SAM/THFs SATA Gekkos freely whenever they could, other DDs were /SAM and would meditate outside of alliance and be swapped in for WS dropping; MNKs for Chi blast rotations.


Pre TOAU, melee DD was pretty much:

SELECT YOUR CHARACTER!
-Two-handed DD/THF for SC rotations(hit other mobs for TP...this was mostly for sky shit though)
-THF main TH whore
-SAM/THF pwnage(preferred 99% of the time since damage was godly)
-DD/SAM(what most DDs did; meditate outside of alliance, run in and drop ws, disband)
-RNG
-MNK with MND set
Dual wield jobs and melee mnks had no value. The only jobs that did a good job of TP burning in the main alliance without dropping or rotating were WARs with Steel Cyclone with Martial Bhujs and SAM/THFs with Hagun since those WS gets a massive attack bonus also DRKs with Spinning Slash to some extent.

Got to remember, Homam gear was pretty much the first gear released for melees that had Haste on it aside from Byakko's Haidate which were SAM and WAR. Most melee were rocking Attack and accracy sets(Haubergeons/Assault Jerkins) prior to the introduction of viable haste sets, so melees as a form of viable damage in HNM fights was subject to their WS frequency which really only WARs and SAMs excelled at(aggressor, meditate, WS with attack bonuses, byakko haidate)

Pretty sure you have no idea what you're talking about, lol.

* DD/THF only really started picking up steam after the majority of ToAU.
* THF usually stayed out of the alliance until the last minute.
* See the first point.
* DD/SAM did happen, but it was only in select fights. Otherwise, most DD stayed in PT and BRDs rotated. WARs did /THF Steel Cyclone to plant hate on shit.
* RNG did happen, I agree with this.
* MND set MNK also happened for select NMs (specifically Kirin).

Dual Wielders ran rampant in just about every non kiting situation (minus a select few NMs, like Tiamat) and wrecked shit regardless of the target, HNM class, EXP/Merit class or otherwise until Hasso /SAM buff and more haste gear. Also colibri.

[dasva]

Remember part of the problem was difference in ws strenght too. Ruinator is hot as fuck.

[NynJa]

Nah 1h have pretty much always sucked endgame, even back in 2003/2004.

What the fuck game were u playing?

Maybe in 03-04 it was dd/thf, (and that was more the player base not knowing much) but then from 2005-2009 it became war/nin all the way.

[Ophannus]

What the fuck? The 1H DDs were great for a span of FFXI. You even bitched about them on multiple occasions. There's a reason we had Hasso, STR/DEX, and TP/round modification.

Yugl, I was talking about HNMs not merit parties. We got those modifications because in merit parties a 49 DMG axe's Rampage did 1200-1600+ damage but a Penta Thrust from a 92DMG polearm barely broke 700 or Guillotine from a 97 damage scythe barely broke 700. A DRK would swing for 170 damage but a WAR would swing twice with their axes for 130. This only really pertained to weak content like dynamis and merits because nobody fucking brought ridill wars to wyrms because they'd be hitting(mostly missing) for single digits. My post was regarding the fact that 1handed DDs sucked on endgame NMs. My post was referring to 2002-2005 era of FFXI. During this time you didn't see 1handed DDs on NMs, only in Dynamis/Limbus/Meritparties definitely not on wyrms or kirin unless it was a zerg which didn't even become popular until things like tier 2 merits and prominent haste gear came out which is post toau. I don't remember Ridill/Joy WARs being used pre TOAU outside of merit parties or weak NMs.

* DD/THF only really started picking up steam after the majority of ToAU.

Really? I don't know about your server but I definitely remember on Ragnarok circa 2004, people would fight Sky gods opening with two sets of 2 DDs doing SATA light or dark for MB to take off 20-30% of the NMs HP in the first 20 seconds of a fight. And I definitely remember SAM/THF being popular for TA+Gekkos on Tiamat and for SA gekko shenanigans on Khimera.

[Yugl]

People used them for Kirin with sharp buffs. Any 1PT strategy used SMN/PUP. Tiamat was mage heavy if I remember correctly.

[dasva]

Yes if you weren't meleeing /thf or /sam were better. But if you were meleeing...

[Ophannus]

Tiamat was SAM/THF and WAR/THF only pretty much. Nobody came BLM except for crowd control of adds since Tiamat has 50% MDT for some reason.SAM/THF were the bees knees because after a NIN or PLD got roared, they could plant hate on the roar'd tank to help them get some enmity back. Other DDs fought random Antlions and shit and ran in to unload WS but really, it was SAM/THF mostly. Rangers sucked on Tiamat too. 1h jobs were lol on Wyrms, I don't know why people here are acting like Ridill WARs and DD NINs were good pre 2004 in any event that wasn't Dynamis, Limbus or meritparties, they weren't.

Hell even on Fafhogg, 1handed DDs were lackluster unless you had BRDs and shit which were rare because usually you had mages and claim jobs camping, not support(since kings were relatively easy). Most of the time you couldn't count on there being a Bard present at a King so you went with standard white magic buffs so no minuets/madrigal. In cases like that, 2handed jobs usually outperformed equally geared 1handed jobs, you'd see Steel Cyclones, Gekkos and Spinning Slashes doing like 800-1k on Fafnir unbuffed with occasionally higher spikes but Rampage/Jin/Asuran probably never broke 500 unless you had a BRD.

Seriously, I know WAR/NIN and ridills and NINs and MNKs were awesome as fuck when TOAU came out and TP burn parties rocked and NMs like Khim and Cerb were squishy but pre TOAU around 2004/2005 when people were still TPing in Hauberks and Assault Jerkins and Optical Hats, 1handed DDs were a novelty to be used in Dynamis/Sky parties/KRT/Limbus, not on wyrms/higher tier sea gods/kirin where Gaxe WAR, DRKs and SAM/THF dominated even RNG was terrible during this time unless they had Annihilator or Culverin+1, this was before Velocity Shot and True Shot and all the various buffs they got after the nerf like the Sharpshot enhancement.

[Abandon]

what? i dunno about you, but my hnmls took scores of blms and me (sch, fuck the haters) and MB everything we fucking could, and nuked inbetween for the giggles.

Also, 2004, for me it was always "oh, you're a drg? you have /thf?" i used wheeling thrust more than anything else, by a long shot. It was the same for my drk and war, until the 2-hand buff. i was drk/war and was stacking acc out of this world, or i was war/nin until ToAU, then it was drg,drk,war/sam, and home run swings. also, Drakesbane. <3

[Selamis]

Tiamat was SAM/THF and WAR/THF only pretty much. Nobody came BLM except for crowd control of adds since Tiamat has 50% MDT for some reason. Other DDs fought random Antlions and shit and ran in to unload WS but really, it was SAM/THF mostly. Rangers sucked on Tiamat too. 1h jobs were lol on Wyrms, I don't know why people here are acting like Ridill WARs and DD NINs were good pre 2004 in any event that wasn't Dynamis, Limbus or meritparties, they weren't. Hell even on Fafhogg, 1handed DDs were lackluster unless you had BRDs and shit which were rare because usually you had mages and claim jobs camping, not support(since kings were relatively easy). Most of the time you couldn't count on there being a Bard present at a King so you went with standard white magic buffs so no minuets/madrigal. In cases like that, 2handed jobs usually outperformed equally geared 1handed jobs, you'd see Steel Cyclones, Gekkos and Spinning Slashes doing like 800-1k on Fafnir unbuffed with occasionally higher spikes but Rampage/Jin/Asuran probably never broke 500 unless you had a BRD.

Um, huh? If you wanted Tiamat to take three fucking hours sure. Otherwise you had a tank party that consisted of whm, rdm, brd, 2 tanks and a blm party to nuke Tiamat and force land her. Your thf pulled the adds and zoned them and was there to make sure TH was on it, or you slept them upon aggro and then blms nuked them. The hell is this bringing melee jobs to Tiamat lol.

[Ophannus]

I was under the impression that BLM damage was halved on Tiamat.

[Abandon]

you were on Rag? good lord, what shell were you with

[Sho]

Just about everyone did BLM party on Tiamat with the oddball LS alliances using BLU/THF(s) spamming SATA Cannonball while she was in the air. Timed nukes. Melees were a no-no, including RNGs.

[Abandon]

we took our best drk and war, and they'd chain with the tanks with massive ground strikes and steel cyclones. then we just sat back and nuked and ate cookies

[Falaras]

Tiamat was pretty much all blms. As far as 1 handers vs 2 handers back then, it was completely situational for what event you were doing. You have to remember only a small fraction of your server was doing Tiamat, Jorm, Vrtra, Ouryu, whatever else. Most people did: Pre 75 PTing, Meriting, Dynamis, Sky, possibly Limbus. Out of most of those, 1 handers absolutely dominated compared to 2 handers. Only sky gods and limbus end zone bosses usually used the /thf, meditate, chi blast, ect strategy because we didn't exactly know how to properly gear and buff the 1 handers to be useful on mobs with that high of defense.

Knowledge is what made jobs "bad" for certain events, the farther the game progressed the more we realized how to gear and build groups which allowed for more optimal strategies. Some fights had inate problems for jobs like Tiamat taking 50% piercing damage, but for the most part we just had to take time to figure things out. Paladin in 2007 was much better of a job than Paladin in 2002, but by then we had figured out that tanks where usually not very important so the job failed anyways. Same applies to how DDs worked backed then.

[Spira]

oh Ophannus u were on Ragnarok?

my memory of HNMs before ToAU rolled by is kinda shady, but i do remember that Tiamat was BLM heavy. and SMNs were still favored. It probably depends on the strat the LS you were with adopted. also, this was right before the BLM NM resistance nerf iirc.

that said, on everything else, I do remember 1handers being superior in places like Limbus and a lot of 2h job friends bitching.

[Ophannus]

Yeah I don't remember bringing many BLMS mostly SAMs and SMNs. But that still brings me to my original point that 1h were shitty on HNMs pre TOAU. I don't know why everyone is giving me flack for saying that when it was true. The only melees that were used on HNMs were 2handed/thf or 2handed/sam, or even if you went /NIN for some reason, it was still with a 2handed weapon, nobody brough ridill wars to NMs, just wasn't practical.

[Falaras]

Yeah I don't remember bringing many BLMS mostly SAMs and SMNs. But that still brings me to my original point that 1h were shitty on HNMs pre TOAU. I don't know why everyone is giving me flack for saying that when it was true. The only melees that were used on HNMs were 2handed/thf or 2handed/sam, or even if you went /NIN for some reason, it was still with a 2handed weapon, nobody brough ridill wars to NMs, just wasn't practical.

Originally you said end game, not HNMs. End game was not only wyrms, it consisted of tons of events that 1 handers excelled in, while 2 handers where kind of just SC whores or fillers. Generally for any mob that you didn't want a 1 hander on, you'd rather have a Blm, Rng, or Smn on than a 2 hander.

[noodles355]

Tiamat was either pld and/or nin tanks, with Blm/Smn/Cor for main damage, or Apoc drk tanking with Blml/Smn/Cor for main damage.

I don't think either Fate or Chroma ever used war/thf and sam/thf...