Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Radec]

Just as an additional bit of curiousity, does the magic change open up drks ability to nuke at all or is that still nothing but a novelty? Haven't kept up with this thread at all so probably missed any talk of it.

Only reason to nuke remains being weak and wanting tp(or mob immune to phys+forgot twilight scythe), now it just might do a small amount of damage while you do it.

[Chamaan]

Hey Warrior isn't one-dimensional. I can swing my axe horizontally AND vertically. That's at LEAST two dimensions.

[Damane]

Monk is hardly one-dimensional considering it can not only negate 80% of the normal attacks directed at it but also return a punch at the same time. It's one-dimensional to play because it's so simple, but the roles it can take are numerous because of this damage negation. It's like having capped Evasion that works regardless of your enemy's accuracy (and does damage).

war isnt one dimensional either if you take bravura into account, retallation and a hybrid PDT/haste set etc.. Or if you take into account all the Weapon types it can use. What I meant by that is that they can only fit in 1-2 roles. Whereas a DRK can for example sleep an add or stun shit etc. Thats the comparison I had in mind.

[dejet]

Under the current system its not that big a deal with a good PDT/hybrid set. Hopefully the new system makes it risky.

It won't be risky, you will be getting hit for crazy dmg from level 50 mobs. And anything higher will just own you right out. Se said they no the problem and are thinking of says to fix it

It will be suicidal

[Obsidian]

Level 50 mobs have junk for attack. You're exaggerating.

[Ophannus]

Relic doesn't count for this argument. I'm talking about clearly defined job mechanics built in to the job itself. BLU has a variety of spells and traits that allow them to fulltime heal, debuff, nuke, tank, DD. THF can evade, control hate,solo. DNC can solo, main heal a party, deal excellent damage, enhance everyone's survivability with waltzes, enhance the damage everyone does to a target even across alliances by lowering a target's crit evasion or defense utilizing steps, self SC and even tank with eva/fan dance+animated flourish. PUP can change roles from a DD hybrid to a DD healer and toss out Cure 5s and shit or nuke hard. A WAR using different kind of weapons, although adding diversity, isn't what I had in mind for 'role'. WAR doesnt toss out heals or buff parties, it smashinates.

[Damane]

Relic doesn't count for this argument. I'm talking about clearly defined job mechanics built in to the job itself. BLU has a variety of spells and traits that allow them to fulltime heal, debuff, nuke, tank, DD. THF can evade, control hate,solo. DNC can solo, main heal a party, deal excellent damage, enhance everyone's survivability with waltzes, enhance the damage everyone does to a target even across alliances by lowering a target's crit evasion or defense utilizing steps, self SC and even tank with eva/fan dance+animated flourish. PUP can change roles from a DD hybrid to a DD healer and toss out Cure 5s and shit or nuke hard. A WAR using different kind of weapons, although adding diversity, isn't what I had in mind for 'role'. WAR doesnt toss out heals or buff parties, it smashinates.

yeah but all of the BLU DNC PUP stuff you listed, doesnt work on anything remotly hard like in Legion. Same thing goes for hate control from THF. That shit only works on trash mobs.

[dejet]

They said the said zerk would be a danger what do you think counter stance will be like lol

[Damane]

They said the said zerk would be a danger what do you think counter stance will be like lol

the adjustment I can see them implement is prolly enhancing the defense during counterstance, while reducing the counter rate.

[Obsidian]

the adjustment I can see them implement is prolly enhancing the defense during counterstance, while reducing the counter rate.

The adjustment I can see (if any is made) is just decreasing the defense penalty of activation. There's no need to cut the counter rate if we take the same amount of damage before and after.

[Taim Meich]

While the utility that Ophannus gives to the hybrid job is definitely not that important, it's certainly there. And, at least in an ideal future situation, I like his tiering and find it interesting. If SE can increase the risk of having a random heavy DD tank a mob with just the aid of curebombing, while at the same time enhance the damage of the ligh DDs to get closer but still inferior, I think the game will benefit from that.

Closing the gap between DDs, while still maintaining a hierarchy is a good idea, in my opinion.

[Damane]

While the utility that Ophannus gives to the hybrid job is definitely not that important, it's certainly there. And, at least in an ideal future situation, I like his tiering and find it interesting. If SE can increase the risk of having a random heavy DD tank a mob with just the aid of curebombing, while at the same time enhance the damage of the ligh DDs to get closer but still inferior, I think the game will benefit from that.

Closing the gap between DDs, while still maintaining a hierarchy is a good idea, in my opinion.

I am not against a hierarchy, but the gap needs to be closed to the point where BLU DNC NIN THF etc actually can be viable (not perfect) but viable options for say stuff like Legion or so. It would also open up some viable option, like getting good geared DNCs in for haste samba, while they deal good dmg (not WAR/DRK/SAM dmg but decent) for example. Or BLUs for some def/atk down debuffs etc. for each mob while dealing good dmg.

[Byrthnoth]

> Job provides 10% Haste to the party when everyone fights the same monster.

> Terribad at party content.

>

[fantasticdan]

The utility mnk offers (high hp, low tp feed per damage, counter), is more useful against high end mobs than anything blu/dnc/etc. offer for the most part thou.

[Damane]

> Job provides 10% Haste to the party when everyone fights the same monster.

> Terribad at party content.

>

hey I am not saying dnc buffs are bad, but when you are due to other buffs near the haste cap and have one spot open. would you give it to a DNC that deals mediocre dmg (due to the current design way of the game for 1h and 2h weapons) or a WAR/SAM/DRK in Legion? If that gap is closed good enough I can see the spot going to the DNC. The game can only benefit from haveing more option to choose from in all events then only WAR DRK SAM (and I am a WAR main, but I would really like to use my DNC or BLU in those events too, my DNC even went into retirement since I stoped farmind Dynamis, because I never get told to gear up DNC for events).

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, I was making fun of SE. That image is : justasplanned :

[Cairthenn]

DNC was pretty good at party content at 75.

[Roundelk]

While BLU is a hybrid job it's different from NIN and DNC. If I was called to go BLU and DD I'm setting spells that would increase my damage via traits, stat bonuses and attribute bonuses which would mean I'm not setting stuff like magic fruit or battery charge as I should be getting cures and stuff like that from support. What I'm saying is BLU has an advantage of being versatile OR straight forward on any role.

[fantasticdan]

You still have room after setting the important DD traits for a few utility spells thou. I mean, I guess you could drop magic fruit to get a couple points of str/dex or whatever, but that's not really a big deal.

[dasva]

Also if emnity ever stops being a very bad joke blu is pretty hot shit in getting non engaged emnity