Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[arus2001]

It was more to fuck over NIN, really. Though the fact resisted enfeebles build the same enmity as those that stick was pretty dumb to begin with.

[Khajit]

/drk tanking really since those were the main hate tools of it. Endgame groups were starting to abuse it.

[Toth]

In regards to the implementation of new jobs in an expansion: Like the expansion itself that introduced them, Scholar and Dancer were just not well though out. On paper, they sound awesome. A TP based healer, buffer, and debuffer? A mage who can control the weather and magic use? They both seemed so new and unique but in reality, SCH was a poor man's RDM without the melee ability and far fewer abilities and spells. DNC had as much attack power as a THF without SA. These crippled the jobs before the cap was even raised. Thankfully the two jobs proved to be fantastic sub jobs but still, as main jobs, SCH took quite some time before it became useful and DNC is still not where it needs to be.

SE seems to be taken a smarter approach to GEO and RUN at least. GEO's buff and debuff systems look solid and the nuking potential is there with a nice slant on strategic placement. RUN's reveal should clarify more on the job.

[dasva]

I'll still never understand this, as they have used RDM tanks themselves.

It's right up there with there not wanting nin or /nin to tank for several years. Gaiz you aren't supposed to use things like evasion and shadows to prevent dmg while you tank!!!

[dasva]

SCH was a poor man's RDM without the melee ability and far fewer abilities and spells.

Spells yes. Abilities no. At the time all rdm had was convert and chainspell lol.

[Buffy]

In regards to the implementation of new jobs in an expansion: Like the expansion itself that introduced them, Scholar and Dancer were just not well though out. On paper, they sound awesome. A TP based healer, buffer, and debuffer? A mage who can control the weather and magic use? They both seemed so new and unique but in reality, SCH was a poor man's RDM without the melee ability and far fewer abilities and spells. DNC had as much attack power as a THF without SA. These crippled the jobs before the cap was even raised. Thankfully the two jobs proved to be fantastic sub jobs but still, as main jobs, SCH took quite some time before it became useful and DNC is still not where it needs to be.

SE seems to be taken a smarter approach to GEO and RUN at least. GEO's buff and debuff systems look solid and the nuking potential is there with a nice slant on strategic placement. RUN's reveal should clarify more on the job.

They said flat out before the WoTG expansion dropped that sch and dnc were primarily intended as sub-jobs

[Toth]

They said flat out before the WoTG expansion dropped that sch and dnc were primarily intended as sub-jobs

They did huh? I was just watching the reveal videos from the fanfest and I just loved all the reactions.

[Hashmalum]

It's right up there with there not wanting nin or /nin to tank for several years. Gaiz you aren't supposed to use things like evasion and shadows to prevent dmg while you tank!!!

And you're not supposed to use a job with inherent MDB, damage mitigation spells, shields and medium armor, self curing, and hate generation, to try to tank either! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WE DIDN'T GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO TAKE DAMAGE SO THAT YOU COULD TAKE DAMAGE!!! YOU SICK FUCKS

[dasva]

Yeah so many years SE's idea of tanking was pretending you were genbu... except without nukes or good dmg

[Kyte]

They said flat out before the WoTG expansion dropped that sch and dnc were primarily intended as sub-jobs

They also said SCH is not a mage. It's best not to read too much into what they say about the job's concept pre-release.

They did huh? I was just watching the reveal videos from the fanfest and I just loved all the reactions.

I just rewatched the videos for the SCH and DNC demonstrations, and ...wow. They showed simple things like Manifestation that would make me remark to myself "hey, that's neat." But the crowd has a reaction more akin to the pirates in Farcry 3 "HOLY SHIT! IT's JASON BRODY...I MEAN GRAVIGA!"

[Ophannus]

Have you seen the BLU demonstration from 2006?

OMFGWTFBBQ WILD OATS!

[ronin sparthos]

Years later, BLU still cannot shot web and don't give me that Filamented Hold shit either.

On GEO and RUN they really should give players some time to beta the jobs on the test server before the release to avoid any major flaws that result in needing 3 months after Seekers launch to fix (a la SCH and its Add: Blk/Wht) or a PUP scenario where a huge fuck up results in no one taking the job seriously for years after the fact. First impressions are everything and having someone hit 99 on day 1 of the new jobs launch only to point out that the job isn't viable is a great way to wind up with Official Forums shit up with "This job is garbage" "LOLRUN from RUN".

On the surface GEO sounds good as it stands as a Corsair variant but the issues with luopans HP, recast timers and how wide the range/potency on self-sphere abilities are something that should be dealt with hands on by players and sent back up to Matsui. I really hope after the RUN information is revealed a quick test server period happens around late Feb-early March as it'd go a long way to separating Matsui from the Tanaka regime.

[Slycer]

On the surface GEO sounds good as it stands as a Corsair variant but the issues with luopans HP, recast timers and how wide the range/potency on self-sphere abilities are something that should be dealt with hands on by players and sent back up to Matsui. I really hope after the RUN information is revealed a quick test server period happens around late Feb-early March as it'd go a long way to separating Matsui from the Tanaka regime.

Given the recent status of the test server, the chance of GEO or RUN or anything related to SoA appearing there before SoA releases is approximately 0%.

[ronin sparthos]

Given the recent status of the test server, the chance of GEO or RUN or anything related to SoA appearing there before SoA releases is approximately 0%.

I feared as much. The excuse most likely is to prevent "spoiling" the new jobs when they get released with the expansion pack or to avoid disappointment.

You'd think SE would get by now that they don't have a good reputation for launching jobs and a simple test could result in some minor tweaks before launch day instead of dumping out a beta test on the live servers. Their entire test server mantra goes out the window I suppose.

COR is the only job offhand that launched in a near pristine state and that says alot more about the intense demand for Refresh at the time than it does about SEs ability to not release lemons.

[arus2001]

I'd be surprised if the GEO spheres extend anywhere past 10 yalms from the point of origin.

[Damane]

Years later, BLU still cannot shot web and don't give me that Filamented Hold shit either.

On GEO and RUN they really should give players some time to beta the jobs on the test server before the release to avoid any major flaws that result in needing 3 months after Seekers launch to fix (a la SCH and its Add: Blk/Wht) or a PUP scenario where a huge fuck up results in no one taking the job seriously for years after the fact. First impressions are everything and having someone hit 99 on day 1 of the new jobs launch only to point out that the job isn't viable is a great way to wind up with Official Forums shit up with "This job is garbage" "LOLRUN from RUN".

On the surface GEO sounds good as it stands as a Corsair variant but the issues with luopans HP, recast timers and how wide the range/potency on self-sphere abilities are something that should be dealt with hands on by players and sent back up to Matsui. I really hope after the RUN information is revealed a quick test server period happens around late Feb-early March as it'd go a long way to separating Matsui from the Tanaka regime.

Tbh tough its seems like the DEV team has a better knowledge nowadays how the jobs work and how players play them. There have been buffs/nerfs and adjustments that made alot of sense the last 1 year. So I think that GEO and RNF wont be as flawd as DNC and SCH were in the beginning, but they wont be perfect either. They will definitly monitor those jobs closer and the SJ usage of it and make corresponding changes probably 3-6 months after adoulin has been released.
The SP of those 2 jobs will probably tough be weaksauce to prevent another embrava/PD debakel and will be buffed up later if needed.

the ecxeption to this are:
SMN and RDM, they just dont know here wtf to do or are too affraid to make changes.

[Chamaan]

If they'd put the new jobs on the test server it'd just push the entire expansion release back until July so they could fix all the things we find wrong.

[Economizer]

I'd be fine with them testing tweaks for current jobs on a long term basis (they could fairly easily add new jobs on the test server since you don't have PS2 limitations with memory, such as having a set of jobs like Warrior-2, Monk-2, White Mage-2, Black Mage-2 and so on so they could test more current changes against major changes, or even compare different changes) and then releasing the new jobs to the live servers with the premise that those jobs are subject to change, but that this is their "vision" of them.

I'm actually more worried about them releasing job specific gear like artifact for the new jobs because it is harder to adjust gear from a historic standpoint then I am about them getting the jobs right out the gate, provided they're willing to be tweaking them here and there on a wide scale.

All this said, testing them on the test server is a fairly good idea, a month before they release Seekers they could have two phases, one week of testing, one week of feedback and tweaking on their side, another week of player testing, and final touches on their end before it goes live, but given their slow pace with these things that seems like it would be impossible.

[TummieGaruda]

COR is the only job offhand that launched in a near pristine state and that says alot more about the intense demand for Refresh at the time than it does about SEs ability to not release lemons.

I'd say BLU before COR. Cor had issues with the fact that there weren't able to use a gun until the teens if I remember correctly (or maybe it was bullet selection) and there were other adjustments later on that made the job better (QD charge system and changing QD recast from 3 min down to 1). BLU's main issue was related mainly to the AF armor questline requiring an item that could only be desynthed from Soulflayer robes and crafters were selling them for 3-5m.

[Cairthenn]

It was bullet-related.

BLU was useless at 75, except for like..Pandemonium Warden. COR wasn't.