Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Ranth]

Not sure if this is a joke or what. BLU was good for Spike Damage and I remember SA+Cannonballs doing 2k on Sky Gods and 1K on Kirin if you weren't zerging. Hell two BLU's back then CA/lolRam Charge + CA/Cannonball to make a light skillchain for mages to MB.

It wasn't useless, it had it's place at some events... but no not all.

It definitely wasn't terrible.

Spoiler: show

Yep. I apparently kept like 7 year old images. God, why. http://i47.tinypic.com/dbqiqf.jpg

[Darkmagi]

Compared to other jobs, that wasn't special in any way though. You could only do decent damage once per minute.

[Azat]

Not sure if this is a joke or what. BLU was good for Spike Damage and I remember SA+Cannonballs doing 2k on Sky Gods and 1K on Kirin if you weren't zerging. Hell two BLU's back then CA/lolRam Charge + CA/Cannonball to make a light skillchain for mages to MB.

It wasn't useless, it had it's place at some events... but no not all.

Pretty much this.

I don't remember how many times I was forced to go blu for the zombie factor alone. blu/thf could still land those SACA cannonballs full damage double weakened.

[Dotsudoku]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b9...Untitled-1.jpg

Someone still having my DI explanation saved makes me happy.

I have nothing else to contribute to this discussion.

[Ranth]

Compared to other jobs, that wasn't special in any way though. You could only do decent damage once per minute.

Though that's true, we also didn't have the same accuracy rates/buffs we do now back then, so a minute didn't feel as long as you'd think. Even for two handers, since the buff to them came out I believe a fair distance off from the release of ToAU. Though this isn't really much of an argument, since obviously there was really rarely any circumstances when a blue mage was ever necessary to do an event as was said. It was an incredibly effective tank/holder for Einherjar though.. man that made einherjar so much easier/more fun. Also it had great utility for many limbus areas, as was said.

[Jurist]

Someone still having my DI explanation saved makes me happy.

I have nothing else to contribute to this discussion.

That's hilariously accurate.

Also used WAR/SAM finishing 100 TP off nearby mobs.

[Kyreth]

I'd say BLU before COR. Cor had issues with the fact that there weren't able to use a gun until the teens if I remember correctly (or maybe it was bullet selection) and there were other adjustments later on that made the job better (QD charge system and changing QD recast from 3 min down to 1). BLU's main issue was related mainly to the AF armor questline requiring an item that could only be desynthed from Soulflayer robes and crafters were selling them for 3-5m.

Yeah, COR didn't have an L6 craftable gun until 2009 or so, and I'm not sure when Firefly (the R/E L5) went in, one of the "Let's add random NM's to zones" updates.

The whole thing with incredibly annoying AF upgrades...oh, gawd, it made me wish I'd found more friends to hunt soulflayers with until they fixed it.

[ronin sparthos]

Lol i remember that raid on Arrapago Reef. One of the only times that the zone was useful.

Blu had macc issues at launch where landing spells like Geist Wall was near impossible which is comparable to CORs gun issue.

[Elizara]

BLU was also awesome on the Diablos prime fight. (And far as I know, is really boss at soloing Diablos Prime without breaking a sweat)

It's not a essential job most places, but used in the right spot it can be awesome actually. I think that sums it up.

[ronin sparthos]

Thats exactly what BLU is supposed to be. Its among one of the most balanced classes in the game even though the BLU spells could use an avenue for increasing damage against high lvl targets.

Cannonball was popular along with Regurgitation precisely because you could stand back outside the danger cones and deal damage. Stuff like Dark Ixion punished getting close or even sky gods before the advent of buffzerging. You could sit behind Tiamat and nuke all day!

[Darkmagi]

What you're saying is that job was only good if you had shit support. It had a slim few niche uses, but it certainly wasn't ever desirable over other jobs for the damage it dealt. Melees did fine on sky gods, same with dark ixion.

[Lucavi]

I know it doesn't count in this game because you couldn't get anything out of it, but Blu was absurdly good in PVP.

[fantasticdan]

What you're saying is that job was only good if you had shit support. It had a slim few niche uses, but it certainly wasn't ever desirable over other jobs for the damage it dealt. Melees did fine on sky gods, same with dark ixion.

It was desirable for any event with low to same level mobs (nyzul, assault, BCNMs, einherjar adds, ashu talif fights, etc.) due to the damage/spamability of physical spells + head butt + crowd control + AoE damage potential + self-sufficiency. It was also ideal for soloing a fair amount of things, some that other jobs probably couldn't even do, like the eft ENM, and some missions. I don't think anything could touch it for soloing merits.

For HNM/sky/etc. yeah, it wasn't a top tier DD compared to others when cors/brds were involved, but it wasn't that bad. It could still contribute a fair amount of damage with SA vertical cleave/cannonball, nukes (eyes on me/mind blast on wyrms comes to mind), while supporting with cures and diamond hide.

Overall I think it was a useful job to have back at 75, even if I didn't use it for HNM type stuff often. Certainly more so than the extra 'pure' dd jobs I leveled, that I never had any reason to use over war.

[Rionel]

It's kind of funny, but it seems like the more "elaborate" jobs that have more complex systems within their job construction seem to end up on the weaker scale of things. The simple straight to the point jobs seem to be vastly more effective.

BLU, PUP, SCH, DNC are some of the more "complicated" jobs off the top of my head that come to mind that seem to be suffering through those kinds of universally utility issues.

Though perhaps that's the price of versatility? The new director dude did mention that they were -okay- with versatile jobs being overall weaker compared to the 2H-er jobs because they had versatility. But then there's that fear of pushing them just that smidge too powerful, and dealing with a backlash of folks (it would happen without a doubt).

I personally think the best way to go about it is to have these versatility jobs just a -tad- bit behind the usual jobs, so that they could be interchangeable in most situations. BLU instead of WAR? Sure, that totally works. DNC instead of DRK? That's cool. PUP instead of MNK? No problem. SCH instead of WHM? Go ahead!

And then there are jobs like SMN and RDM where it's just like, "What the fuck are we gonna do with this?"

[dasva]

I rarely ran with highly buffed/supported or even just decent sized groups at 75 so a good blu was pretty indispensable. Unfortunately most I saw were rather shitty

[Economizer]

Versatile jobs being weaker is a bit of a joke.

If BLU used a Polearm instead of Swords for example (same rank, reasonable access to weapon skills), job would be in with the rest of the 2h jobs in DD heaven. Or if Blue Magic spells scaled a bit better against high level mobs you'd see some niches. Scholar is essentially better then Black Mages in most situations and about equal with White Mage but with better damage output options. PUP and DNC also have many issues from being one handers, although I'm sure there are some other minor issues, such as pets not benefiting from high buff situations as much.

As for Summoner, it has to do with being limited to a job timer that doesn't scale well with buffs, and having a pet which doesn't get as many buffs on top of it. Red Mage's problems lie mostly in the shadow of Scholar and Blue Mage just doing the versatile thing better.

It isn't like BLU, PUP, SCH, DNC, RDM, SMN are the only jobs with some versatility either. Paladin and White Mage both have much of the potential just from the basic framework of the job for example. Even the 2h DDs can be very versatile, such as DRG's Wyvern being able to toss out heals, Dark Knight being able to mix it up with magic damage and Drain/Absorbs, and Samurai just being the king of OP. Given that all the 2h DD jobs have tanking aspects (even glass cannon DRK), I just don't buy versatile = weaker as anything but an excuse for the 2h jobs to continue to dominate.

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On a side note, given the increase defense buffs available, can anyone explain to me, preferably with some numbers, why Cannonball isn't as popular as it used to be, other then melee/WS damage being better? Did it just not scale as well or match up against the new Blue Mage spells?

[Prothescar]

if BLUs could use polearms, gswords, or something like that we'd outpace most 2h DDs tbh, we have too many powerful DD traits and spells available for it to be anywhere near balanced. Fun thing to think about though, should give BLU curved Gswords including Fulgurante. BLU spells scaling properly would have a similar effect

Cannonball would still be a fantastic spell for pretty much everything, but the fTP is horrible

[Byrthnoth]

If you use Chain Affinity, do Gorgets/Belts affect Blue Magic fTP?

[dasva]

Saca spells just don't scale as well with buffs. Plus getting a mob to face 1 direction for long is a pain with multiple DDs

[Prothescar]

If you use Chain Affinity, do Gorgets/Belts affect Blue Magic fTP?

no unfortunately. most post-75 (and some pre-75 ones too) multihit BLU spells act like Resolution-esque merit WSs so it'd be a pretty nice boost to their damage.