Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[dasva]

if BLUs could use polearms, gswords, or something like that we'd outpace most 2h DDs tbh, we have too many powerful DD traits and spells available for it to be anywhere near balanced. Fun thing to think about though, should give BLU curved Gswords including Fulgurante. BLU spells scaling properly would have a similar effect

Resolution blu would be pretty sick. As would proper scaling of blu pdif. Can't see why att buffs can't work on it

[Jeryhn]

They're not technically weaponskills, and gorget/belts specifically say they modify weaponskills, so I wouldn't think so. I imagine Immanence'd spells face a similar situation.

[Prothescar]

Thinking about it, ele gorgets/belts working for physical spells wouldnt be unreasonable. talking about an 11% dmg boost for QC and 20% for AS, inventory considerations and possibly only working with CA/Efflux would be a fine enough cost for such a boost. But SE is pretty scared about making physical magic useful ): so it'll never happen

[Chamaan]

Well honestly if you could modify physical blu magic like a WS blus would pretty much just be Samurai walking around with a 700-1000% Meikyo at all times. No one puts Sammy in the corner.

[Prothescar]

Major difference being that SAM can increase the attack of their weaponskills, we'd still be very limited by poor pDIF.

[Fake]

Even the 2h DDs can be very versatile, such as DRG's Wyvern being able to toss out heals, Dark Knight being able to mix it up with magic damage and Drain/Absorbs, and Samurai just being the king of OP. Given that all the 2h DD jobs have tanking aspects (even glass cannon DRK), I just don't buy versatile = weaker as anything but an excuse for the 2h jobs to continue to dominate.

What the fuck at drk being a glass cannon, it has access to all the best PDT armor and with last resort or apoc you can cap PDT and haste at the same time. Unless ofcourse you are refering to loldefense, in which case war and mnk both trade off more defense to use the native JAs.

On a side note, given the increase defense buffs available, can anyone explain to me, preferably with some numbers, why Cannonball isn't as popular as it used to be, other then melee/WS damage being better? Did it just not scale as well or match up against the new Blue Mage spells?

Cannonball is from a completely different time, where plenty of mediocore linkshells had trouble killing the staple endgame content. SATA melees/blu were never the best option, they just allowed a decent tp:damage ratio with little to no support all while sitting out of range. As far as new spells go, blus shouldn't be casting many damage spells outside of CA regardless since their melee shits all over spell damage.

[dasva]

I'll admit blu was never optimal if you could choose any set of jobs at any numbers. But by that logic most jobs wouldn't be optimal. Also just because an ls didn't have a large pool of players doesn't mean they were mediocre.

[Prothescar]

If anything I'd say achieving things with less people is more worthy of praise

[ronin sparthos]

Fulltime support coverage (BRD/BRD COR/BRD) wasn't mainstream/feasible for many groups for years if we want to go back to discussions in the pre-TOAU, early-AU period. Maybe your elite group was rollin' buff rotations before it was cool to do so but that wasn't the common scenario in even EXP parties back when. Having a BLU for clutch Stuns or to fill in whatever gaps you may have had made the job good but not essential which is exactly what the job was billed as.

It's why people are like "/THF SACA Death Scissors was boss" because unbuffed DD were a reality, most people didn't use food in parties leading to shitty hitrates and gameplay that makes molasses look perky. Completely different game really.

Refresh support was the biggest issue really, leaving you dependent on hMP sets or having downtime when your MP bars ran dry. Shits embarrassing for a Galka really considering how bad their MP pools typically are. I'll never forget my good friend Hysteric Barrage, Frenetic Rip and Disseverment. Oh Diss, your poison DoT and multihit on command won my heart over. Oh and I can't forget Mandibular Bite either.

It wasn't well until post-AU going into WOTG where support characters went from a neat perk to something fielded at every event if possible. Surprise surprise it had something to do with the fact that BRD was boring as shit and COR allowed peeps to be DD and do some buffs at the same time. Seriously, BRD is one of the most boring jobs ever conceived outside EXP parties where you had competition or were actively pulling for a good/great party.

Except JP. COR/WHM onry. If you aren't COR/WHM you're a greedy fuck who is leeching off the healers. Sub WHM or get out NA gaijin scum. No one wants your Slug Shots.

[Economizer]

What the fuck at drk being a glass cannon, it has access to all the best PDT armor and with last resort or apoc you can cap PDT and haste at the same time. Unless ofcourse you are refering to loldefense, in which case war and mnk both trade off more defense to use the native JAs.

This is more about the sterotype then reality, since being a 2h DD also means you get heavy armor and thus get to take a dump all over everyone else yet again.

Versatility being an excuse to make classes weak is a total and utter joke considering.

[ronin sparthos]

Cut my life to pieces, this is my Last Resoooorrrrrt.
Souleater
Mage doesn't heal you.
Fucking DRKs man. Boot this idiot and get a WAR.

[Yugl]

Bitch about mages not curing you through capped-haste Souleater while rocking floored DEF *

[Fake]

I'll admit blu was never optimal if you could choose any set of jobs at any numbers. But by that logic most jobs wouldn't be optimal. Also just because an ls didn't have a large pool of players doesn't mean they were mediocre.

I'm not saying what is or isn't optimal. I'm saying there where plenty of linkshells at 75 with an abundance of people yet they would still take forever to kill tiamat/fail to kill odin etc etc because they had a stupid mindset where once the tank party was accounted for they would just load up on unsupported DD and be horribly inefficient at most things.

In regards to achieving things with less people, unless you could reliably TA a tank then blu would often become a hinderance since they would likely be standing at max casting range and have the mob move every minute.

I'm aware most groups weren't running with good setups back at 75, but that was as much to do with general ignorance than it was anything else. The same stratergies we've become accustomed to now were still the best ones at 75, thats the reality of it, regardless as to how the majority of groups setup and killed stuff.

[Tarage]

Are we still talking about Blu at 75?

[Damane]

It's kind of funny, but it seems like the more "elaborate" jobs that have more complex systems within their job construction seem to end up on the weaker scale of things. The simple straight to the point jobs seem to be vastly more effective.

BLU, PUP, SCH, DNC are some of the more "complicated" jobs off the top of my head that come to mind that seem to be suffering through those kinds of universally utility issues.

Though perhaps that's the price of versatility? The new director dude did mention that they were -okay- with versatile jobs being overall weaker compared to the 2H-er jobs because they had versatility. But then there's that fear of pushing them just that smidge too powerful, and dealing with a backlash of folks (it would happen without a doubt).

I personally think the best way to go about it is to have these versatility jobs just a -tad- bit behind the usual jobs, so that they could be interchangeable in most situations. BLU instead of WAR? Sure, that totally works. DNC instead of DRK? That's cool. PUP instead of MNK? No problem. SCH instead of WHM? Go ahead!

And then there are jobs like SMN and RDM where it's just like, "What the fuck are we gonna do with this?"

If BLU would have a way to manipulate their blue magic attack of physical spells to make them actually work on HNMs, it would be a very strong job. I just finished BLU 2 months ago and geared it up properly and decent up. The job is a powerhouse that is only held back by the fact how 1handed weapons and blue magic fair against HNMs. I am eager awaiting the 1handed weapon update, because if it comes like anything close to what the 2handers got years ago, BLU will shit all over the place.
BLU/WAR with correct job traits set is just insane in my eyes.

on anything that is fodder mob, or isnt considered a HNM mob (Legion mobs) I would take a good BLU anytime over any other DD hands down. that much versatility and attack power crammed into one job is just mindblowing.

[Byrthnoth]

That much versatility and attack power crammed into one job is just mindblowing.

This is why I can't level BLU. I'd black out and wake up with another 99 hybrid job, 99 Almace, and 2000 more tests to do.

[Taim Meich]

I'd love to level BLU, I'll probably do some day, but then I think of my inventory and cry. From what I've read, BLU is one of the most inventory intensive jobs out there, and I already have SCH, thanks.

[Damane]

I'd love to level BLU, I'll probably do some day, but then I think of my inventory and cry. From what I've read, BLU is one of the most inventory intensive jobs out there, and I already have SCH, thanks.

it depends, if you have full thaumas gear and manage to get full morrigan +1 set and empyrean +2 armor set, you can get some decent sets together (of course need some other gear). But yeah if you want to go perfect on it, you would need like 3 mogsatchel just for that job. I manage just fine with 70 inventory slots, tough I dont optimize for physical magic spells or magical spells, they each have 1 set put together that push most of the relevant stats up.

[dasva]

Yeah part of it kinda depends on how many things you are trying to maximize. So knowing what kinds of things you are going to be doing lets you skimp or ignore some sets.

[Cairthenn]

What have I done