Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Yugl]

Quite frankly, if they were going to fuck with the haste and duration, they may as well have left the regain. You need a lock for the lock trick to work (i.e. only applies to Legion; Odinv2 and Nyzul have no guaranteed lock). You also need to hit a certain number of PTs (3-6), use each JA, and have the MP each time. The lock doesn't start immediately upon hitting the Legion Portal either and AOE buffs will unlock you occasionally. Anyone who has locked for Legion through multiple waves will understand the problem immediately. The MP side alone means eight casts per alliance per event. That means 8-16 casts an alliance for 20% of your MP, so 3.2x or 1.6x your total MP (And this shifts depending on the gear you use). If you're locking, you're sub RDM, so that's roughly a vile, conv, and vile+1. Even then, that's imprecise due to overflow MP and recast timers. Using those JA/items strains Tabula duration even further. Quite frankly, "locking" is an utterly piss-poor excuse for nerfing the regain effect.

As for stunning, there are several mobs that prove to be a bitch for stunning:
- Corse
- Cerberus
- Gallu (Occasionally)
- SW (Occasionally)

I can see occasionally landing stun, but I'm more convinced that someone is botting for that guy. I go by animation btw, log chat is not up to par.

Quite frankly, the effect on Odinv2 depends on how much time you take to zerg. I could definitely see a group destroying him within the remaining 5.5min of Embrava (Assuming the SCH recasts before killing him). Otherwise, just drag a 2nd SCH since difficulty does not scale.

[Dominico]

This has been an unpleasant 48 hours.

[Draylo]

Whelp... with this and the curor nerf, we're looking at an even deader game.

You keep posting this in various threads, quit already if its so bad and save everyone else the annoying pessimism.

[Tarage]

I sure as hell hope the jp are exploding as much as we are. Then maybe we'll be able to fix this.

Oh who am I kidding, Tanaka 2.0...

[Yugl]

Edit: NVM.

[SargentRemora]

and here we have SE having no fucking clue how their game works once again, max PD tier:
Base skill 417
Merits 16
Soulscourge 7
Grip 3
AF3+2 9
AF3 neck 9
Earring 3
Anhur +12
AF2+2 +15
Evoker Ring +10
Fervor +4
Astute +5
Cimmerian Sash +5
Ngen Seraweels +10
Rubeus +10

537 skill

You cant get anywhere near 600 skill. You can get a max of +5 more from Kirin's pole with Byakko strap. I'm not sure of any other sources of summoning skill.

There's also Aptus Earring from ASA which is 1~2 skill, but yea, the highest PD you can get now is 57 seconds.

[Khajit]

You can also augment a Kirin's pole with summoning sill but it's still ridiculous.

[ronin sparthos]

This is the bastion of some of the best FFXI players on the interwebs and people can't see why this dual nerf had to be potent?

If the game wants to be taken seriously, brava/PD had to be adjusted to fit in line with other 2hr abilities. They were just too game defnining and a crutch to monster design to be left in place with any reasonable attempt to go into Seekers. A return to a reasonable battlespeed for this game doesn't occur without severely shackling the most potent ability introduced to the game since Primeval Brews.

This isn't Guild Wars 2 or World of Warcraft, FFXI has too many jobs optimized to work in an environment where you aren't invincible or rocking superhaste.

[NynJa]

If the game wants to be taken seriously, brava/PD had to be adjusted to fit in line with other 2hr abilities.

Were the events reliant on these abilities adjusted accordingly?

[Slycer]

Someone posted a slightly different take on the translation which was pretty Engrish (they were JP) but did point out one minor mistake in my translation. The Embrava part, for haste, should say something along the lines of "the haste was reduced from 1% per 15 enhancing skill to 1% per 20 enhancing skill, with the cap of 25% at 500 enhancing skill." Just a minor tweak, corrected in the original translation. Was nice of them to translate for us, though, considering the community team still hasn't.

[Sho]

Were the events reliant on these abilities adjusted accordingly?

Probably not as much as players hoped for, but it was adjusted, lol. I think SE is banking on the ideal that players will actually build solid PTs and not rely 2hrs to be successful. For 80 Nyzul, it's possible (esp with BRD and/or COR set ups). ADL will still be semi luck based. Legion will just take a little bit more of planning. Nothing is impossible, however-- NNI took the biggest hit if anything, and it wasn't that big a hit at all.

[Damane]

This is the bastion of some of the best FFXI players on the interwebs and people can't see why this dual nerf had to be potent?

If the game wants to be taken seriously, brava/PD had to be adjusted to fit in line with other 2hr abilities. They were just too game defnining and a crutch to monster design to be left in place with any reasonable attempt to go into Seekers. A return to a reasonable battlespeed for this game doesn't occur without severely shackling the most potent ability introduced to the game since Primeval Brews.

This isn't Guild Wars 2 or World of Warcraft, FFXI has too many jobs optimized to work in an environment where you aren't invincible or rocking superhaste.

I agree on that part, but the adjustment to Legion are laughable, people used embrava / PD as a tool of survivement. -10% HP on mobs wont change the fact that they can one shot mages pritty easy and kill melees/tanks easy. Getting one shot with a 2k move in your face while wearing your PDT/MDT gear as a mage screams that somethign is wrong.

No changes to ADL is just what makes me cring. A simple fix to ADL would have been to reduce its AoE range so your support would be able to do its job without getting sent to hell in an instant. Could have lived with that, but no changes to ADL is just fucking insane.

[Slycer]

Someone posted a slightly different take on the translation which was pretty Engrish...

I should also note that this is the first time I've seen direct interaction from the JP side (a JP poster, Sakura317 on the official forum, actually came over and posted an English translation on the English area), which leads me to believe that there's quite a ruckus over this announcement already. They also added some of their own comments at the bottom, basically agreeing with everything that we've said that this is pretty foolish and it's really the killer TP moves and stuff that makes Legion difficult, not +/-10% HP.

[NynJa]

I should also note that this is the first time I've seen direct interaction from the JP side (a JP poster, Sakura317 on the official forum, actually came over and posted an English translation on the English area), which leads me to believe that there's quite a ruckus over this announcement already. They also added some of their own comments at the bottom, basically agreeing with everything that we've said that this is pretty foolish and it's really the killer TP moves and stuff that makes Legion difficult, not +/-10% HP.

I remember it happening once before, I think it was with the original marrow/rift/mulcibar item counts.

[Slycer]

I remember it happening once before, I think it was with the original marrow/rift/mulcibar item counts.

The thread on the JP side has 234 posts already, lol. I'll take a cursory look through and see if I can figure out the general sentiment.

[Tarage]

Since when do we want "FFXI to be taken seriously"? From what I understand, being a "hardcore MMO" is the opposite of what we want right now. Do you want to go back to the days of 24+ hour fights? Of spending days and weeks camping a NM with a narrow spawn window? If anything, this game SHOULD move towards Guild Wars 2, because Guild Wars 2, outside of a few notable exceptions, rewards players for playing the game. I sure as hell don't want to go back to those dark "hardkore" days.

[Slycer]

First few pages on JP thread (it's over 20 pages). Most of the comments range from not very positive to almost scathing, I think they're taking it even worse than we have been.

@600 skill
"kinda difficult to reach 600 skill with the equipment in the game..."
"lol @ 600 summoning skill"
"am i missing something?"

@PW/ADL
"dev team, you can try it yourself and let us know how it goes after your adjustments"
"the reason the ADL is short is because PD is short and you get destroyed if they take a long time"

@general
"no, try again"
"are you adding anything else to sch/smn to compensate?"
"the buff adjustments are fine, the content adjustments are terrible"
"have you actually tested these content adjustments to see if they match up with the PD/embrava adjustments and have results of the tests?"
"i'm praying that this won't be implemented as is"
"i'd like to see a video of the dev team actually beating the various content after the mentioned adjustments"
"you should consider looking at the balance properly on the development side before you ask us to do it on the test server"
"well, at least the demand for scholars will go down"
"recent official posts: 'can't do it because it takes time' 'can't do it because we're making a new expansion' 'can't do it because we're working on other stuff' Too many excuses. You have no time to make decent adjustments, now?"

@nyzul
"level 100 is now impossible"
"it will be more than 5 times harder to reach level 80 now than it was to reach 100 before"
"high difficulty is fine, but extreme luck requirement is not the kind of high difficulty we're looking for"

@legion/odin
"the problem is not that we are too buffed, the problem is that the enemies are outrageous"
"rather than decreasing HP, why not decrease attack power?"
"how does reducing enemy HP by 10% compensate for reducing the duration of PD?"
"reducing the HP makes no sense, just give more time to complete the battlefield"

[Scythiroth]

Well, at least Japanese people are complaining about this as well and things will actually happen because of that.

PD and Embrava needed to be nerfed, but content not being nerfed correctly to compensate for that is just awful.

[Tarage]

I just really hope there is SOMETHING to compensate for these nerfs. I can see SMN still useful for things that didn't use PD before(obviously) and some things that use PD(ADL), but now they are completely useless for a lot of events. SCH is even worse off, I'm not even sure what they would be used for.

[Sho]

Honestly, SCH went back to being nigh useless now. I don't know the answer to fixing SCH, but I know the Embrava nerf was a good thing.

Sorry SCHs.