Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[dasva]

Oh yeah forgot death. Taking damage wont do it.

[Plow]

Just for clarity, in the translated post, "damage-volatile enmity" corresponds to Kaeko's "CE" and "time-volatile enmity" corresponds to Kaeko's "VE." It may be clearer to call them "damage-decaying enmity" and "time-decaying enmity" in the original post to avoid confusion with the "volatile" term.

well that's disappointing but yeah I guess it explains that heh

[Fwahm]

logging / zoning only removed hate if during the time you were out of zone / logged off you became top of the hate list

That's not true; you just have to be "gone" long enough for the mob to go through its enmity list update, which happens every 60 seconds or so.

[fantasticdan]

Dying removes you from the hate list unless the mob has some kind of party or ally hate system like old school WoE did (still does?) Zoning and logging also remove you from the hate list in the same situations. Before deploy gave any emnity I used to be able to be able to aggro mobs, deploy puppet and let it die and I'd lose all hate. I think you used to be able to achieve the same effect by swaping hate with a puppet that took no action on the mob yet, but I might be remembering things wrong.

I thought this still worked?

[Kyte]

Unless they really changed things:

Puppets work like any other pet in that regard- if you deploy a puppet a puppet and it gets killed, the original deploy target will come after you but the links can despawn.

However, they do have this feature: if the puppet attacks a target (and generally this is with a nuke) but is deactivated before it can be damaged by the enemy, you will receive zero hate and the monster will not come after you.

[Khamsin]

It's been awhile but iirc the only ways to completely remove yourself were zoning and logging. And even then the mob for a time kept track of how much hate you had so if you got back on the list it could come at you

I was just implying, somewhat wryly, that if you take damage equal to your maximum hp, you'd be dead.

[Hitou]

if the puppet attacks a target (and generally this is with a nuke) but is deactivated before it can be damaged by the enemy, you will receive zero hate and the monster will not come after you.

I could be wrong but I don't think this works any more. Any action the puppet takes on a mob will transfer hate to you once the puppet dies/deactivates. Used to be that you could deploy on a mob and the puppet could even swing at the mob and if you took no other action the mob wouldn't come for you once the puppet died.

On a side note, it's kinda sad they still never fixed the issue where a mob stays unclaimed if pulled by a puppet with anything but melee swing (magic/ranged/ja.)

[Spira]

i thought this still works..
pet enmity has always been kinda wonky.. if thats a good word for it.

the way pet hate carries over to master isn't really hate. its more like "claim".. being put on the list even if you have 0 enmity.
its kinda like getting aggro. no actions are required - no enmity is generated.

when pets die and the mob comes for the master, they don't necessarily have any enmity at all. they're just on the list, as long as they dont directly attack or get hit by the mob.
i think a lot of BST or SMN players who have soloed will get this

[Slycer]

I'd like to say that the official translation added some clarity, but honestly, it probably couldn't possibly have been any closer to my translation than it is. So yeah, if anything was unclear before, the official translation isn't going to help.

[dasva]

i thought this still works..
pet enmity has always been kinda wonky.. if thats a good word for it.

the way pet hate carries over to master isn't really hate. its more like "claim".. being put on the list even if you have 0 enmity.
its kinda like getting aggro. no actions are required - no enmity is generated.

when pets die and the mob comes for the master, they don't necessarily have any enmity at all. they're just on the list, as long as they dont directly attack or get hit by the mob.
i think a lot of BST or SMN players who have soloed will get this

Yeah never understood it. Especially the way the mob will come at you like it's aggro but wont link with others like aggro. Also I've noticed transferring via snarl does weird things. Like sure you have no hate... but you will still start to get drawn in and mobs come after you if your pet gets reset when that wouldn't if you just hit fight

[Cairthenn]

That's not true; you just have to be "gone" long enough for the mob to go through its enmity list update, which happens every 60 seconds or so.

This is entirely false.

[pancakesandsex]

I was just implying, somewhat wryly, that if you take damage equal to your maximum hp, you'd be dead.

I don't believe Matsui's example was assuming you take that amount of damage all at the same time.

[dasva]

This is entirely false.

Ya know looking back thru the testing they never did check to see if there was a time component. They only comfirmed the highest TE and zoning into the same zone thing. Which is kinda curious considering longer loggings and such seem to work

[Cairthenn]

The mob has to attempt to target you while you are not there for it to work (in the same way that zoning at the top of the hate list will remove you). I played around with it myself at the time with some frustration (I played BLM at Timat, this was important to me! ). If someone pulls hate above you while you are logging off, it won't matter. That said, the mob will attempt to target a person higher on the late list who is not present (thereby resetting them) before moving on the the next highest. So, the situation also arise where if someone who is not logged out drops below your hate while you are logged out (unlikely because you are accumulating no VE at this time) and they were the person with the highest enmity, that should also instantaneously reset your total enmity. The practicality of this method decreases more and more as there are more people.

[Kyreth]

Interesting thought, though I don't have a pet class so I have to ask- if a pet gets one-shotted, does the aggro it caused to it's target also allow for linkage?

I've always noticed if I'm in areas where mobs normally link that if I one-shot the target, nothing that would normally aggro linked to it, even if they were nose to nose with the mob in question.

[Cairthenn]

How to be successful: accidentally die on multiple characters in Sauromugue by re-testing results and forgetting about your characters afterwards while busy doing something else.

[dasva]

The mob has to attempt to target you while you are not there for it to work (in the same way that zoning at the top of the hate list will remove you). I played around with it myself at the time with some frustration (I played BLM at Timat, this was important to me! ). If someone pulls hate above you while you are logging off, it won't matter. That said, the mob will attempt to target a person higher on the late list who is not present (thereby resetting them) before moving on the the next highest. So, the situation also arise where if someone who is not logged out drops below your hate while you are logged out (unlikely because you are accumulating no VE at this time) and they were the person with the highest enmity, that should also instantaneously reset your total enmity. The practicality of this method decreases more and more as there are more people.

How long did you wait? Seems odd that a mob would maintain an account of emnity of someone who isn't on the hate list until it dies?

[Cairthenn]

Three minutes. And yes, it seems odd, but given that the enmity system updates in real time, the same can be said about immediately logging out and logging back in.

[Vyvian]

I was just implying, somewhat wryly, that if you take damage equal to your maximum hp, you'd be dead.

If you aren't the target, and die to aoe equaling your maximum hp in damage, you lose 1800 CE and the remainder stays on the hate list.

[dasva]

Three minutes. And yes, it seems odd, but given that the enmity system updates in real time, the same can be said about immediately logging out and logging back in.

Damn. Yeah I just tried for a full hour and no go.