Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Chamaan]

Yeah if nothing else it'll make Run a good secondary tank if we get back to old school alliance setups. Even if Pld remains a better straight up tank, a good Run will be an attractive support-tank. Just stick one in every party on magic spammy mobs and bam, you get some defense without losing a DD slot.

[Slycer]

This argument presumes that endgame as it currently stands is how endgame of Adoulin will be. I would argue that they've already made it fairly clear with the mono-elemental nature of Naakuals that RUN tanking will be useful, if not preferable, over PLD tanking at least in those cases. All they would really need to do would be to give monsters normal attacks that are elemental in nature and/or make them frequently cast nukes of their element.

[Martel]

I'm just hoping runes will be usable and decent subbed. PLD/RUN gogo. Status effect are about the last thing that'll really fuck a PLD over. A reliable way to resist encumbrance would be amazing. And amnesia, weakness, etc.

[dasva]

I'm kinda curious just how they will protect from magic dmg. The way it's worded it almost sounds like it's not mdt. But yeah from what they've been saying sounds like they plan on making content that encourages real tanking. So we shall see how things go

[Spira]

It really sounds as though in ideal situations of mono elemental mob like what the naakuals currently appear to be a RUN would be able to handle better. If their basic attacks end up being elemental based then even more power to RUN probably..

Tho honestly it's probably gonna be interesting to see how a RUN handles. A good deal of older enemies are actually mono elemental too. Definitely gonna be pretty fun in Abyssea at least.. To have players that might be able to hold elemental resistance like bst pets

[Slycer]

I'm kinda curious just how they will protect from magic dmg. The way it's worded it almost sounds like it's not mdt. But yeah from what they've been saying sounds like they plan on making content that encourages real tanking. So we shall see how things go

Given a high enough resistance, you can pretty much guarantee magic resists, which is more effective than MDT can possibly be (MDT reduction caps out at 50% while the reduction from a resist only starts at 50%). They specified that it stacks with other forms of resistance which would indicate it adds elemental resistance in some fashion, not necessarily straight MDT (although element-specific MDT or MDB may be part of it as well).

[Damane]

Given a high enough resistance, you can pretty much guarantee magic resists, which is more effective than MDT can possibly be (MDT reduction caps out at 50% while the reduction from a resist only starts at 50%). They specified that it stacks with other forms of resistance which would indicate it adds elemental resistance in some fashion, not necessarily straight MDT (although element-specific MDT or MDB may be part of it as well).

while group buffs for - mdt/resistance are nice. If RUN is allready weaker in its main-selling point (magic dmg taken) then pld, whats the point then? I dunno I am getting mixed signals here, lets hope it turns out fine

[Rocl]

It seems RUN's selling point is more Magic Evasion than Magic Damage Taken, which, like Slycer says, starts at 50% rather than capping. (Though w/ Aegis that's much different)

[Damane]

It seems RUN's selling point is more Magic Evasion than Magic Damage Taken, which, like Slycer says, starts at 50% rather than capping. (Though w/ Aegis that's much different)

yeah but it depends how this magic evasion is set up. I mean you can only have one barspell up at a time, and I dont know how many elemtnal resistances RUN gets up with their ability. Against multi elemental mobs... while with Aegis you can cap out on 87.5% magic dmg taken no matter the element of the spell/ability and still have better physical defense. Something sounds very skewed...

[Hashmalum]

I'm just hoping runes will be usable and decent subbed. PLD/RUN gogo. Status effect are about the last thing that'll really fuck a PLD over. A reliable way to resist encumbrance would be amazing. And amnesia, weakness, etc.

Amnesia is fire-based so the fire resist rune should theoretically help with resist rates on it. But what element are Encumbrance and Weakness? Are they even resistable at all? I would be inclined to guess that Encumbrance is water if anything, given the water orientation of many of the mobs that strip you (merrow/slugs/jellyfish), but I have no idea what Weakness is.

[Byrthnoth]

yeah but it depends how this magic evasion is set up. I mean you can only have one barspell up at a time, and I dont know how many elemtnal resistances RUN gets up with their ability. Against multi elemental mobs... while with Aegis you can cap out on 87.5% magic dmg taken no matter the element of the spell/ability and still have better physical defense. Something sounds very skewed...

Pretty much this. If max resist is 1/8 (12.5% damage taken, -87.5% damage reduction) and Aegis PLD hits that already without resisting, then you're leaning on RUN's ability to reduce it down to 6.25% with 50% MDT. If taking 6.25% more damage from magic matters, the monster is hitting for like 10,000 damage unresisted, which would be ~a factor of 5 greater than SE's most powerful magic monster TP move. Even if the monster is Cuelebre and ~100% of the attacks are elemental and of one particular element, I just don't see it working out in RUN's favor enough to matter.

In a support sense, forcing 1/8 resists would reduce the Aegis PLD's 1/8 magic damage taken to 1/64, which is for all intents and purposes 0 magic damage taken. A 2000 damage attack would do 31.25 damage instead (minus 30 damage Phalanx = 1 damage). This could be useful for . . . HFing monsters with 2000 damage Enspells?

[Darkmagi]

Can you resist encumbrance or miniweakness with fealty?

[Slycer]

Why are we fixated specifically on the damage RUN takes? AoE buff is clearly one of the main selling points. What good is the PLD eating Firaja for 500 damage when everyone else in his party is taking 4000 (or even 2000 with perfect MDT sets)? Extreme example, yeah, but just trying to show my point. Remember MDT and resistance are not mutually exclusive.

[dasva]

Given a high enough resistance, you can pretty much guarantee magic resists, which is more effective than MDT can possibly be (MDT reduction caps out at 50% while the reduction from a resist only starts at 50%). They specified that it stacks with other forms of resistance which would indicate it adds elemental resistance in some fashion, not necessarily straight MDT (although element-specific MDT or MDB may be part of it as well).

Yeah I agree it does sound like some kind of high resistance. And we've definitely seen how effective that can be but also how crappy it often is. That said I'm wondering if maybe they might be giving a form of SDT instead

[Yugl]

Absorb DMG
Enfeeble immunities
Add SDT resistances
Use Absorb for DMG

Just a few ways to they can make RUN better than PLD.

[arus2001]

I'd be wary of promoting any kind of situation that dictates 3 RUNs in an alliance, personally. Which could also likely mean 3 BRDs and 3 someone to Barspellra if a specific element is THAT deadly.

Though, my general concern would be more toward potentially bloated MACC values of mob moves. So, even if you could reduce something's fire magic to peanuts, maybe it has a fire breath TP move that hits full power guaranteed due to eclipsing MACC relative to MEVA. In such cases, yeah, PLD over RUN--maybe even no RUN at all.

[Damane]

Why are we fixated specifically on the damage RUN takes? AoE buff is clearly one of the main selling points. What good is the PLD eating Firaja for 500 damage when everyone else in his party is taking 4000 (or even 2000 with perfect MDT sets)? Extreme example, yeah, but just trying to show my point. Remember MDT and resistance are not mutually exclusive.

because you can slap one aegis pld against a mob and have an army of relic gun rangers firing on it outside of AoE magic range. The point is unless those RUN resistance from magic dont resist death/amnesia/doom/encumbrance/kaustra etc. for RUN, there seems no reason to bring one in as a tank when an Aegis pld can do the same thing MDT wise and has better physical defense. And frankly I dont see SE adding the ability to resist death/amnesia/doom/kaustra etc to any kind of job... it would be just to OP in their eyes

wohoo for being able to resist slowga... yeah cast erase and then haste has the same effect.

[Obsidian]

Didn't realize everyone had an army of Annihilator RNGs.

[Damane]

Didn't realize everyone had an army of Annihilator RNGs.

the shell I am in has like what 9 or 10 fo them or more, and we cant even take all in as RNGs in Legion since you need support jobs too and melees. but that was just the counter extreme example to slycers extrem example of PT members being in range and getting one shot by magic (which frankly isnt gonna happen if you are prepared for it)

the point is: the selling speciality of RUN for what it was announced for, is allready worse then an a Aegis PLD... and that statement comes from SE themself, so why bring the job for stuff then? The Job was allways sold as specialized tank against magic heavy mobs, yet it underperforms compared to an Aegis-PLD, that is their "special" tank for physical dmg? I mean if that doesnt sound fishy to you, then what else does?

[Darkmagi]

Didn't realize it was worth using rng for most content in the first place.