Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Rocl]

PUP being on mage gear is still probably one of the most retarded things in the game to date.

It is clearly to reduce Burden for Ice/Water/Light/Dark Maneuvers cuz puppets

Same as what happened with SCH and DNC with old Salvage gear, basically.

I eagerly await the Salvage+2 update which puts RUN on Ares and GEO on Marduk.

[Darkmagi]

I feel like they would be on skadi based on the whole job look, but it would be rather awkward and pointless stat wise for a gsword user.

[Prothescar]

sounds like something SE would do then

[Cairthenn]

This is really out there, but I'm laughing hysterically at "CheddarCheeseさん".

[Obsidian]

Will be in none. Putting them in the best sets in the game will mean a lot of players will have them pretty well geared from day 1, and that's unacceptable if you want people to spend time and subscription money to gear their new jobs.

Same as what happened with SCH and DNC with old Salvage gear, basically.

I think the official reason is because the gear was balanced for the current jobs, with no consideration given to any potential future jobs.

Whether or not said gear would be broken on GEO or RUN remains to be seen, but it's a safer bet to leave them off it from the get-go than have to take them off it later and face even more QQing.

[Fwahm]

I didn't really explore the math of them fucking with the def/damage formulas but the way I interpreted it was jobs with low defense will take increased damage and jobs with higher defense will take less--or something along those lines. They made it seem like soon when that formula change is implemented, jobs like SAM DRG WAR and DRK will take increased damage than ever before and jobs like PLD will take less, so RUN would probably be with the former rather than the later I'd assume.

In the dev post about the defense update, SE said that they are tuning it so that melee jobs with average, normal defense with Protect V (~500-550 ish) will take close to the same amount of damage as before against current endgame mobs, like Legion and late VW. The monster ratio cap's minimum being lowered is designed to make it so skills like Berserk and Last Resort actually increase the damage taken by melees, not to make current melees take more damage at their base level. Rune Fencers won't take extra damage from the defense update unless they sub warrior for berserk.

In addition, SE has already revealed that one of RUN's JAs is specifically aimed at mitigating physical TP moves by mobs, so it's premature to say that they aren't going to have appreciable physical mitigation.

[Taim Meich]

I think the official reason is because the gear was balanced for the current jobs, with no consideration given to any potential future jobs.

Whether or not said gear would be broken on GEO or RUN remains to be seen, but it's a safer bet to leave them off it from the get-go than have to take them off it later and face even more QQing.

I don't remember a single piece of equipment from which SE has removed a job, so I don't think that's something to consider. The can use all the baransu arguments they want, but not including new jobs into perfectly fitting sets is only so that people have to play the new content to gear those jobs.

[Ophannus]

They may put RUN or GEO on one or two sets but they don't have to be treated in kind. When BLU COR and PUP came out, BLU and COR were put in Crimson Scale set but PUP wasn't put on any Abjurations. BLU could use Homam and Nashira but COR/PUP couldn't use either. This could happen for SoA jobs; perhaps GEO will be put on Zenith and Nares but not any Salvage gear or whatever.

I wonder if the Empyrean armor for the new jobs will be acquired in Abyssea or through a series of quests in SoA. Personally I have a feeling that the NQ armor pieces will be bought with the new Conquest Points/Imperial Standing/Allied Notes of the region and then the Seals will be dropped from the new ISNM/KSNM/BCNM/SCNM of the region. The +2 items will probably come the SOA endgame equivalent of vDynamis/Limbus/Salvage. I don't see Emp armor coming out for a long time for these jobs, probably AF will come out ~June/July, AF2 will come out around November and AF3 probably a year from now as it takes time to implement the final missions/instanced end game area and to see what stats would be relevant for the relic/emps for the new jobs. It takes time to gather data and see what adjustments need to be made and what stats are relevant/appealing to a RUN/GEO which is impossible to tell for at least a year. If they rush the AF2 out, we'll just get another Mirage set with crappy AGI/MND/INT/MP bullshit for RUN. I'd rather them wait and take their time to implement the AF2/Emp so the gear comes out not only powerful but useful.

[Ophannus]

I wish they'd release all the planned JA/Traits/Spells they plan on adding to the current 20 jobs so we can get to testing them. I feel like when they first introduced the test server, the devs were WAY more active about adjusting things they add on the test server. Remember at 95 cap, when they were adding Bully and Steady Wing, they adjusted those 2 abilities like 3-4 times each, making them better and more powerful with each complaint. After 95 cap they ceased to do that and just put everything they had on the test server in the game despite complaints of their uselessness or lack of effectiveness. Even the new 2hrs feel more like level 99 JAs with 10 min recasts, not 2hr(1hr) abilities that shift the flow of combat(except for a select few; SMN, WAR, SAM, DRK).

[Spira]

I think they said that for continuity sake Relic and Empyrean stuff will come from the old places right?

[Obsidian]

I don't remember a single piece of equipment from which SE has removed a job, so I don't think that's something to consider. The can use all the baransu arguments they want, but not including new jobs into perfectly fitting sets is only so that people have to play the new content to gear those jobs.

Because they rarely add new jobs to old equipment (Abjurations aside). I don't think Square cares what content you play; you have to buy the expansion to get access to the jobs. They have your money, you're still subscribed; what do they care if you're still spamming NNI? It's not like the new content won't (hopefully) introduce new gear for all jobs. They don't need to force you to do anything.

[Slycer]

The majority of good multi-job current endgame equipment was added after SoA development started, so it's not unrealistic to think that they've already considered which new equipment RUN and GEO should have access to and the equippable jobs will be updated with SoA.

[ronin sparthos]

Still a bit concerned regarding if RUN/GEO will be on Magian weapons. Did they ever make a definitive statement on that?

[Taim Meich]

Because they rarely add new jobs to old equipment (Abjurations aside). I don't think Square cares what content you play; you have to buy the expansion to get access to the jobs. They have your money, you're still subscribed; what do they care if you're still spamming NNI? It's not like the new content won't (hopefully) introduce new gear for all jobs. They don't need to force you to do anything.

My point is that many people have already spammed NNI, and has the relevant gear in their posession. So, the moment they level RUN or GEO to 99, they have all those options available to them.

And I'm pretty sure that they want to avoid that, so they will probably add RUN and GEO to a bunch of nice-but-not-top-tier sets, like neo-limbus stuff, some good craftable/ah sets, maybe some abjuration gear because those are actually very scarce even if the HQ ones have some awesome pieces, etc.

And regarding job-specific gear: I'm sure that level 95-99 requirement on AF gear we saw is not a provisional number, and they will actually get their AF and relic gear in that level ranges, making them roughly the equivalent of the current AF3+2 in terms of usefulness.

[dasva]

Still a bit concerned regarding if RUN/GEO will be on Magian weapons. Did they ever make a definitive statement on that?

Only thing I saw was no empyrean weapons... I find it doubtful they wont get any magain weapons though

[Ophannus]

One thing that's bothered me since ToAU is that very few if any NMs drop job specific gear for new jobs since TOAU. Old HNMs/NMs used to drop specific weapons, armor, accessories, gear for jobs. New jobs since TOAU don't have JSE nor do they have hnm drop unique weapons or equips. Would be nice if an HNM dropped a special SCH staff or a DNC dagger or maybe a craftable set for BLU that enhances stuff. Just seems like only old pre TOAU jobs have JSE. I guess Abyssea solved the job speicifc weapon thing but would be nice if there were craftable JSE sets for new jobs that offered unique bonuses

[Damane]

You're missing the point entirely as it has nothing to do with the relevancy of the job's role (which I'll remind you we still haven't got a clear vision of yet as the job could be completely sufficient as a DD as well), it has to do with the doomsaying of RUN's supposed physical frailty. There's ways to mitigate physical damage even for the squishiest of DDs, there's no point in assuming that Rune Fencer, a supposed tank job, will not have the same option and thus be eradicated when a monster breathes on them.

i think you are missing the point. RUN is supposed to be a "Tank", so in that regard I dont expect it to be up on par with a WAR/DRK/SAM etc. dmg wise because it prolly will lack the DD job traits. Imagine a PLD needing to rock a haste/PDT hybrid set just to be able to survive physical dmg with a greatsword. While it is prolly an option for RUN, it would most likely hurt them more since they have no shieldmastery etc etc. that gives them extra TP for taking hits. And no you cant compare Tactical parry with shieldmastery ¬.¬, now count in the fact that RUN does have no native cure spells.... doesnt sound bad to you? sounds bad to me.

[Prothescar]

Which still does not explain how RUN is going to be in any more danger for getting one shotted than any other job in the game. If I'm going to be tanking, I'd much rather lower my parse results by 3% in order to put on a hybrid set and survive. I'd still be doing more damage than a PLD, and I'd still be alive just as well as any other job. You're still assuming that taking physical damage is going to be so debilitating as to shut down a Rune Fencer, not even taking into account the fact that they're getting a Job Ability with unspecified potency specifically for evading physical TP moves.

As for TP gain from Shield Mastery for some reason being a concern, TP gain on a greatsword is not likely going to be lower than TP gain on a single wielded sword at any point in time, it's an irrelevant comparison. I guarantee that you do more damage while you're unweakened than you do while you're sitting on the sidelines and getting one shotted by AoEs due to having 400HP.

[Jeryhn]

These days, I think too many people have too many jobs available to them with not enough available inventory space to justify equipment sets that are job specific, especially when the actual differences between jobs (do I deal damage or play a support role, etc). become increasingly smaller. This is what the artifact/relic/empyrean armor sets are for.

Part of the reason why NNI gear is so great isn't only because of the good stats. It's also because just one piece of the armor will work great for so many jobs. The "light fighter", "heavy fighter" and "magic user" paradigm works really well given the game's limitations.

If RUN and GEO don't get access to things like NNI gear that were introduced relatively recently (and possibly with those jobs in mind), I think people won't really consider the two new jobs for general use in the game - a situation that I'm sure SE wants to avoid. Instead of simply omitting the new jobs on currently good gear, it'd be nice if SE simply made their artifact/relic/empyrean armor options have unique effects for players to consider to avoid 100% cookie-cutterism. For example, if just one piece of gear allowed a RUN to harbor a 4th rune, that alone already justifies a player wanting to carry around that one piece of gear given what we currently know about RUN.

[dasva]

I think we have too little info to say what the jobs will or wont be let alone how effect they will be at them