Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

**Darkmagi** · 2013-03-20 18:29

do axes really suck that bad?

**Prothescar** · 2013-03-20 18:37

They're pretty bad, but it isn't the weapon's fault really. The job itself is ill equipped to perform well on high level things. It's probably better than I ranked it, but I'd be surprised if it's much better than NIN or PUP, and it certainly doesn't run with DNC or BLU. I should probably run BST through the simulation again and see how it fares since I added pets.

**Buffy** · 2013-03-20 18:45

Originally Posted by Byrthnoth

Honestly, I have seen no evidence that they read the test server bug forum.

God I love Byrth.

**dasva** · 2013-03-20 19:02

Originally Posted by Prothescar

They're pretty bad, but it isn't the weapon's fault really. The job itself is ill equipped to perform well on high level things. It's probably better than I ranked it, but I'd be surprised if it's much better than NIN or PUP, and it certainly doesn't run with DNC or BLU. I should probably run BST through the simulation again and see how it fares since I added pets.

Think part of the problem is the spreadsheets have no att bonus for ruinator maybe? idk. That said with the monster pdif changes if it effects using bers/last resort usage at all might bst be a good idea for -50% att?

**Byrthnoth** · 2013-03-20 19:08

In high buff zerging situations (which is what is being discussed), Ruinator's +35% attack is pretty much irrelevant because you're capping Ratio either way. In more realistic situations (especially for BST), it helps a lot.

**Indalecia** · 2013-03-20 19:13

Under low buff situations, I would think ruinator would win, but with minimal buffs VS/Pummel(especially pummel) would pull ahead.

Also: perma haste

**Prothescar** · 2013-03-20 19:19

Originally Posted by dasva

Think part of the problem is the spreadsheets have no att bonus for ruinator maybe? idk. That said with the monster pdif changes if it effects using bers/last resort usage at all might bst be a good idea for -50% att?

I don't use spreadsheets and I do indeed account for the attack bonus. High delay in tandem with relatively low attack frequency makes for a difficult time matching the higher end 1h DDs, even with a WS as good as Ruinator. Doesn't help that it can't crit, though that probably won't be as much of an issue in SoA. When I can be bothered to construct proper gearsets for BST I'll run it through again, pet simulation is obviously not concrete as I don't have enough information for absolute accuracy, but it should be a reasonable estimate.

**Buffy** · 2013-03-20 19:56

I've misplaced the link for the stream tonight, anyone got it handy?

**Prothescar** · 2013-03-20 19:58

http://www.twitch.tv/finalfantasyxi_en

**arus2001** · 2013-03-20 20:11

Eagerly awaiting nothing exciting to happen!

**Prothescar** · 2013-03-20 20:23

So I reran the simulation for BST and it completely surprised me. Using proper sets including neo salvage gear, huginn feet, etc. with 99 guttler, boost-str and all the nines, BST actually ties out with BLU. I'll go eat my hat now

**dasva** · 2013-03-20 21:54

Originally Posted by Prothescar

So I reran the simulation for BST and it completely surprised me. Using proper sets including neo salvage gear, huginn feet, etc. with 99 guttler, boost-str and all the nines, BST actually ties out with BLU. I'll go eat my hat now

What gear set you using btw? And dang I completely forgot about hugin... that probably makes more peices of skadi+1 hands better now I think

**Kaope** · 2013-03-21 01:19

Originally Posted by Prothescar

So I reran the simulation for BST and it completely surprised me. Using proper sets including neo salvage gear, huginn feet, etc. with 99 guttler, boost-str and all the nines, BST actually ties out with BLU. I'll go eat my hat now

Did you use hybrid set? or full DD set? Also, would you mind posting the numbers for all 1h DD jobs?

**Prothescar** · 2013-03-21 01:23

I don't use hybrid sets when comparing overall potential job effectiveness. Doing every 1h job would take ages as I have to compile gear sets for each one, multiple gear sets, and run the simulation for multiple types of targets for comprehensive comparison. I'm not doing it at 2:30AM, maybe tomorrow. Would be helpful if you could make gearsets for the jobs that you're interested in seeing to save me the work.

**Ligray** · 2013-03-21 06:37

Smartphone token app lol, wonder if it gives out satchels.

**Prothescar** · 2013-03-21 13:35

Originally Posted by dasva

What gear set you using btw? And dang I completely forgot about hugin... that probably makes more peices of skadi+1 hands better now I think

sorry i didnt see this until just now.

GearSet BSTTP;
BSTTP.main = "Guttler";
BSTTP.sub = "Astolfo (STR)";
BSTTP.ranged = "";
BSTTP.ammo = "Hagneia Stone";
BSTTP.head = "Skadi's Visor +1";
BSTTP.body = "Skadi's Cuirie +1";
BSTTP.hands = "Skadi's Bazubands +1";
BSTTP.legs = "Skadi's Chausses +1";
BSTTP.feet = "Huginn Gambieras";
BSTTP.neck = "Rancor Collar";
BSTTP.waist = "Twilight Belt";
BSTTP.back = "Atheling Mantle";
BSTTP.lear = "Brutal Earring";
BSTTP.rear = "Suppanomimi";
BSTTP.lring = "Epona's Ring";
BSTTP.rring = "Rajas Ring";

GearSet BSTRuin;
BSTRuin.main = "Guttler";
BSTRuin.sub = "Astolfo (STR)";
BSTRuin.ranged = "";
BSTRuin.ammo = "Cheruski Needle";
BSTRuin.head = "Mekira-oto +1";
BSTRuin.body = "Phorcys Korazin";
BSTRuin.hands = "Phorcys Mitts";
BSTRuin.legs = "Avant Cuisses +1";
BSTRuin.feet = "Ferine Ocreae +2";
BSTRuin.neck = "Snow Gorget";
BSTRuin.waist = "Snow Belt";
BSTRuin.back = "Atheling Mantle";
BSTRuin.lear = "Brutal Earring";
BSTRuin.rear = "Centaurus Earring";
BSTRuin.lring = "Epona's Ring";
BSTRuin.rring = "Strigoi Ring";

GearSet BSTOns;
BSTOns.main = "Guttler";
BSTOns.sub = "Astolfo (pet attack)";
BSTOns.ranged = "";
BSTOns.ammo = "Demonry Core";
BSTOns.head = "Twilight Helm";
BSTOns.body = "Phorcys Korazin";
BSTOns.hands = "Phorcys Mitts";
BSTOns.legs = "Phorcys Dirs";
BSTOns.feet = "Ferine Ocreae +2";
BSTOns.neck = "Soil Gorget";
BSTOns.waist = "Soil Belt";
BSTOns.back = "Atheling Mantle";
BSTOns.lear = "Brutal Earring";
BSTOns.rear = "Centaurus Earring";
BSTOns.lring = "Epona's Ring";
BSTOns.rring = "Jupiter's Ring";

used DA axe as well and both of them are within 0.4% of each other, meaning margin of error means it can go either way. probably not ideal sets but i got as close as i could in the limited time i had for research. the blu sets that i use arent ideal either, stuff like 4/5 thaumas and whatnot, no khepri or anything.

Spoiler: show

most major point is that I used 11 fighter's roll in the mix. this benefits BST significantly, much more so than BLU. it was the biggest factor in the spike in effectiveness.

Overall BST came out at around 7% less effective than BLU all the way up to about a draw. I'm sure similar trends exist in some other 1h jobs, but I can't be bothered to find out. BST is in the unique position of having a fantastic weaponskill and gear selection to help mitigate its faults.

**fantasticdan** · 2013-03-21 13:47

kokou's earring and a 7 str ring should be upgrades for ruinator.

**Byrthnoth** · 2013-03-21 14:05

I wonder what I messed up with the WAR comparison then. Guttler is a large advantage, but WAR gets 10% DA, useful JAs, and generally better gear access. I mean, between the weapon, base stats, and traits WAR almost makes up the attack difference between BST and WAR already. Does it really all come down to Skadi body +1?

**Prothescar** · 2013-03-21 14:35

I couldnt tell you tbh. I would think war would at least be equal with bst if not able to surpass it. i'll see about running it later if I get some time. have you got the gearsets still?

**Darkmagi** · 2013-03-21 14:55

Is there any situation in which axe war would fair better due to low pdif?

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