Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Prothescar]

I cant really think why or when that would ever happen but maybe I guess if ratio is so amazingly low that ruinator's attack bonus is a thing. I have literally 0 idea about DW WAR gearsets so this is proving to be more aggravating to put together than I expected

[Toth]

Hi Pro, could you run an analysis with PUP gear? I am curious what kind of setup is most effective.

[Kyreth]

If getting Haste Samba, THF/WAR almost has to be a better DD than DNC. Just going to throw that out there!

Of course, doesn't that mean you need a DNC anyway hitting the target?

[Prothescar]

Hi Pro, could you run an analysis with PUP gear? I am curious what kind of setup is most effective.

get me the sets and sure. it will take me a bit to do PUP because I don't have it implemented at all, so i'll have to add some bits and bobs after I finish with WAR. the way my simulation works is I have each individual piece of gear actually programmed in, so I have to add each piece of gear in order to use it. I then have to have JAs, and the parameters in which they're used, implemented for accurate representation. for PUP this will be tricky to do properly so I'll have to just give a pet estimate rather than actual information, mostly because puppets arent tested really at all and it'd be an utter annoyance, nigh on an impossibility, to implement attachments and maneuvers properly. I should be able to at least implement puppet weaponskills to accurately simulate skillchains if necessary.

[Fake]

Is there any situation in which axe war would fair better due to low pdif?

Seems extremely unlikely since part of the attack boost is already lost by swapping from 2 handed to 1 handed, and crits will become more potent as pdif drops (Ukko's). In such a low buff situation accuracy may well also be a factor.

[Byrthnoth]

Of course, doesn't that mean you need a DNC anyway hitting the target?

Yeah, it does. Still, it means that if you were choosing between 2x DNC and THF+DNC for a high Haste situation, a properly geared THF+DNC duo would be best. Most THFs aren't going to change gear based on whether or not there's a DNC in party though, in which case they'll probably still be worse than 2x DNC.

[RicFlair]

Very interesting, mind if I ask what this simulation involves? IF it's similar to spreadsheets, you can make some slight errors with buffs like having bonuses of killer effects/instinct on even if you aren't using AF3+2 body. I'm surprised Ruinator can take them past a twash dnc or Mandau thf since axe delay is trash and the WS doesnt benefit from aftermath effects.

Edit: Just read the warrior part and thats even more weird. Only thing I can think of is the Crit Rate bonuses of Skadi set, Dual Wield of Skadi body, high amount of DEX or difference of Store TP. That simulation recognizes haste cap right? If so then yeah it is indeed strange.

Btw Phorcys Dirs beats bonuses of Skadi +1 Legs on DC mobs and above (via Spreadsheet)

[fantasticdan]

I cant really think why or when that would ever happen but maybe I guess if ratio is so amazingly low that ruinator's attack bonus is a thing. I have literally 0 idea about DW WAR gearsets so this is proving to be more aggravating to put together than I expected

Build around patentia sash like this maybe? http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/293675

Idk if it's worth dropping that much store TP thou.

[dasva]

Delay is crap on axes but higher delay doesn't automatically mean you do less dmg. I was being completely serious in saying bst does decent dmg.

The only war dw gear I can think of is suppa and auged osode and waist

[Prothescar]

Very interesting, mind if I ask what this simulation involves? IF it's similar to spreadsheets, you can make some slight errors with buffs like having bonuses of killer effects/instinct on even if you aren't using AF3+2 body. I'm surprised Ruinator can take them past a twash dnc or Mandau thf since axe delay is trash and the WS doesnt benefit from aftermath effects.

Edit: Just read the warrior part and thats even more weird. Only thing I can think of is the Crit Rate bonuses of Skadi set, Dual Wield of Skadi body, high amount of DEX or difference of Store TP. That simulation recognizes haste cap right? If so then yeah it is indeed strange.

Btw Phorcys Dirs beats bonuses of Skadi +1 Legs on DC mobs and above (via Spreadsheet)

it isn't the same as a spreadsheet. it handles variables that spreadsheets don't have or it's difficult to implement in a spreadsheet and compares up to six players at once on same or different jobs with varying levels of JA usage. only limitation is each player must have the same buffs because i'm far too lazy to separate them. it comes within 1~2% accuracy of actual in-game results. for the average person there will be no difference between this and a well made spreadsheet, this just makes it easier to compare multiple things at once and allows me to add more variables. with enough polish it would be capable of simulating the entirety of ffxi's combat system, but fuck all of that

[Toth]

get me the sets and sure. it will take me a bit to do PUP because I don't have it implemented at all, so i'll have to add some bits and bobs after I finish with WAR. the way my simulation works is I have each individual piece of gear actually programmed in, so I have to add each piece of gear in order to use it. I then have to have JAs, and the parameters in which they're used, implemented for accurate representation. for PUP this will be tricky to do properly so I'll have to just give a pet estimate rather than actual information, mostly because puppets arent tested really at all and it'd be an utter annoyance, nigh on an impossibility, to implement attachments and maneuvers properly. I should be able to at least implement puppet weaponskills to accurately simulate skillchains if necessary.

Okay I will do so when I get home from work.

[dasva]

Speaking of which is kclub usable offhand assuming you could hit with it?

[Buffy]

Why wouldn't kclub be usable offhand?

[Darkmagi]

I think he means worthwhile, but I'm pretty sure it is for bst. Dunno about WAR though, has a lot higher DA.

[noodles355]

Yeah, it does. Still, it means that if you were choosing between 2x DNC and THF+DNC for a high Haste situation, a properly geared THF+DNC duo would be best. Most THFs aren't going to change gear based on whether or not there's a DNC in party though, in which case they'll probably still be worse than 2x DNC.

What changes would need to be made?

Edit: And the kclub thing, wasn't it a crap offhand for basically everything except whm at 75? Why would it be not crap at 99?

[Darkmagi]

I think it's the best fodder offhand for bst, maybe slightly higher than fodder too. I remember seeing some hardcore bst post some math on it on ffxiah.

[Dotsudoku]

Given how terrible BST white damage is, how powerful Ruinator is, and how often BST finds itself fighting relatively lower level enemies, it makes sense

[Taim Meich]

What are the buffs you're using, Prothescar? PUP gearsets depends a lot on that, mainly because of dDEX.

[Toth]

Huge post by Matsui on new Adoulin content today as he promised!

[Treize Kordero]

Huge post by Matsui on new Adoulin content today as he promised!

OH SNAP!! Can't wait. 4 days left.. its been awhile that I wanted the weekend to pass by quickly.