Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[chichicha]

2 minute floors arent bad at all especially if people are now bringing a BRD. 2-4 songs full time, and you can still get 5ish minutes of embrava if you're bringing a SCH, which I think is worth it for the high regen alone since DD will still be splitting up.

Aiming for 80 now and only getting 1 piece of gear every 5 runs is better than old Nyzul, where you would be lotting against 5 other people, and it might not even drop the piece you were after.

I'm thinking to rep one SCH with a COR. If DD are decent/ bringing their powder boots. COR buffs (tp and haste) + their DMG to slime/ flan mobs isn't that bad for quick kill on them.

Just thought that BRD can gives songs but couldn't bring dmg to mobs.

No offense, as I do have brd and working on horn + harp.

A COR with aug'd relic+2 boots, giving extra wild card, as side bonus.

[Slycer]

Just pulling this over from other thread to continue the discussion here:

JP side updates. I'll do a more detailed translation in a while, but here's the basic story:

1) They know you can't get 600 skill, they just set it somewhere slightly higher than what can currently be reached so that future gear that adds additional skill will have some effect.
2) All new and existing SP abilities will be reduced to a 30 minute timer in this week's test server update. They will look at shortening the timers via equipment/merit points in the future.
3) They understand that PD and Embrava will obviously be less useful than ever, and they know that many people disagree with a nerf, but for those who do disagree, they would rather see comments and feedback as far as what kind of adjustments they should make, rather than feedback that just says not to change them at all.

@1, gj SE u so smart
@2, well that's good, I guess
@3, stfu you're already getting a ton of useful comments among the trash ones, deal with it because the suggested adjustments sucked.

[Byrthnoth]

1) They know you can't get 600 skill, they just set it somewhere slightly higher than what can currently be reached so that future gear that adds additional skill will have some effect.

Wait, what was the logic of capping almost every type of spell potency at 500 skill then?

3) They understand that PD and Embrava will obviously be less useful than ever, and they know that many people disagree with a nerf, but for those who do disagree, they would rather see comments and feedback as far as what kind of adjustments they should make, rather than feedback that just says not to change them at all.

This is reasonable, or it would be if there was any legitimate chance they'd listen to suggestions. For NAs, at least, it's a total waste of time.

[Damane]

Just pulling this over from other thread to continue the discussion here:

JP side updates. I'll do a more detailed translation in a while, but here's the basic story:

1) They know you can't get 600 skill, they just set it somewhere slightly higher than what can currently be reached so that future gear that adds additional skill will have some effect.
2) All new and existing SP abilities will be reduced to a 30 minute timer in this week's test server update. They will look at shortening the timers via equipment/merit points in the future.
3) They understand that PD and Embrava will obviously be less useful than ever, and they know that many people disagree with a nerf, but for those who do disagree, they would rather see comments and feedback as far as what kind of adjustments they should make, rather than feedback that just says not to change them at all.

@1, gj SE u so smart
@2, well that's good, I guess
@3, stfu you're already getting a ton of useful comments among the trash ones, deal with it because the suggested adjustments sucked.

god I cant stress how many times I allready said in the official forums that the nerfs dont bother me, but that the ADJUSTMENT to the events is ass (aka -10% HP on mobs doesnt help at all). I make the suggestions and the JPs make the suggestions too (as seen from you before). What else do they want? Is it so fuckign hard to reduce the attack power of Legion mobs and limit ADLs AoE range from 30'+ feet to 15'?

I should try the german forum, there is pritty much nothign going on there and you usually get an answer from the Devs. But it seems like they recently dont even have a german translator, because the last adjustment translation was that about the bard and nothing else lol.

[Jem]

If PD is on a 30 minute timer then couldn't you realistically double PD for some events? Like for ADL you could take, say 4 SMN's, and use 2 PD's per pop. You'd be limited to 2 pops every 30 mins but it's better than using 1 PD and hoping for the best? Bit of a pain in the ass admittedly.

[Damane]

If PD is on a 30 minute timer then couldn't you realistically double PD for some events? Like for ADL you could take, say 4 SMN's, and use 2 PD's per pop. You'd be limited to 2 pops every 30 mins but it's better than using 1 PD and hoping for the best? Bit of a pain in the ass admittedly.

seriously I'd rather have the content adjusted accordingly, I dont understand all this 2hour hassle. You dont design things in a game around somethign that is available only every 2 hour to stand a chance at winning. Even with reduced timer to 30 min its still flawed design.

[Slycer]

The only nerf out of all the things they did that makes sense given the decreased 30 minute timer is the Embrava duration. It would make no sense without the decreased duration as you could literally keep it up more than half the time with just one SCH, and you could full time Embrava forever with just 2 SCHs. Yes, I know you can lock your TR timer somewhere and accomplish the same thing regardless of the timer, but that was always the case.

[Jem]

Honest question, which content adjustment do you disagree with? Or is it the lack of adjustments for some content that is the problem? It's definitely the latter for me.

* Odin V2 I can't comment on as I've never done

* Legion is fine as you're losing damage but PD isn't required so a HP nerf is reasonable. Sure toning mob damage output would be nice but since you can currently manage without PD it would be unexpected.

* NNI is meh as it makes 100's nigh on impossible. But 5x 80 is extremely reasonable even with Embrava nerf.

The adjustments people seem to want are not related to PD/Embrava imo and nerfs they would have wanted even if PD/Embrava were unchanged.

I realise I'm probably in the minority with those opinions.

[Eldelphia]

I'm thinking to rep one SCH with a COR. If DD are decent/ bringing their powder boots. COR buffs (tp and haste) + their DMG to slime/ flan mobs isn't that bad for quick kill on them.

Just thought that BRD can gives songs but couldn't bring dmg to mobs.

No offense, as I do have brd and working on horn + harp.

A COR with aug'd relic+2 boots, giving extra wild card, as side bonus.

This was my thought too but the SCH will go with the DDs, so more likely a BRD will get added in to stay at the runic lamp and peeps take the Marches. Nightingale and troubadour will help a fair bit.

[Byrthnoth]

Reducing all 2-hours to 30 minutes and not just the new ones?

Helloooo Evoliths. -5 minutes on Soul Voice recast and +30 seconds duration means you can have it up 14% of the time and (if you're suitably well geared) give SV songs more than a third of the time (up to half the time). There are Mighty Strikes/Hundred Fists/Blood Weapon/Eagle Eye Shot/Manafont/Perfect Dodge -2 minutes Evolith, so -10 minutes total maybe.

This is on top of being able to Wild Card more frequently (twice in one half-hour event thanks to Evoliths).

Herp derp must nerf Embrava how do I balance?

[Indalecia]

Oh fuck me, I don't want to go evolith hunting...

[chichicha]

This was my thought too but the SCH will go with the DDs, so more likely a BRD will get added in to stay at the runic lamp and peeps take the Marches. Nightingale and troubadour will help a fair bit.

I was thinking SCH stays, while COR can do more than support.
Plus COR merit with Winning Streak and relic+2 aug'd and empry +2 body, gives 7 mins 49s buffs. It's close to 2/3 of Pre-nerf embrava?! (In fact with new SP, 3rd inc too, possible close to a good 7mins 49s of Embrava)

Of course, buffs taking longer time to complete due to double-up, if first double-up didn't give lucky roll.
And second roll and third roll can only be done after floor jumped.

Bonus -
speed movement + at lamp floor helps a little.
Loaded Deck - helps a little on reset some JA.
Extra Dmg always welcome ^.^

My runs rarely has to get SCH cure, but that was back to original SCH embrava.

It kinda debating

[Slycer]

Reducing all 2-hours to 30 minutes and not just the new ones?

To be completely fair, for all the flak SE has gotten over this in the past day or so, if all of these adjustments are done at the same time (Embrava/PD nerf, add new SPs on a split timer, lower timer on all SPs to 30 minutes), I think we're actually talking net gain. The DD/buffing potential of many jobs in a 30 minute period will go up significantly, and I think it will outweigh the nerf to Embrava.

That being said, note that the line about reducing the SP timer says nothing about splitting it, and last I checked the timers were still tied on the test server. I'm guessing they haven't finished their back-end work on whatever needs to be done to add more recast timers, but I certainly hope they complete all of this before nerfing PD and Embrava.

[Toth]

Agreed slycer on the abilities. They just need to actually correct the content that was too reliant on super buffs to succeed.

[Toth]

I was thinking SCH stays, while COR can do more than support.
Plus COR merit with Winning Streak and relic+2 aug'd and empry +2 body, gives 7 mins 49s buffs. It's close to 2/3 of Pre-nerf embrava?! (In fact with new SP, 3rd inc too, possible close to a good 7mins 49s of Embrava)

Of course, buffs taking longer time to complete due to double-up, if first double-up didn't give lucky roll.
And second roll and third roll can only be done after floor jumped.

Bonus -
speed movement + at lamp floor helps a little.
Loaded Deck - helps a little on reset some JA.
Extra Dmg always welcome ^.^

My runs rarely has to get SCH cure, but that was back to original SCH embrava.

It kinda debating

Does dancer roll stack with Regen?

[Slycer]

Does dancer roll stack with Regen?

Yes, it's a roll effect separate from a regen effect. Like Evoker's Roll stacks with Refresh, Tactician's stacks with Adloquium. Dancer's Roll sucks, though, its potency is terrible (20/tick max with 11 and DNC in party). If you are taking a SCH with you, their Regen V, plus the double HP from Body Boost, should be more than adequate to survive almost any setup of monsters. Obviously if you're taking on some NM that you know has a chance to own you, just give your SCH a second to get over there while you kill other stuff.

[pchan]

I was thinking SCH stays, while COR can do more than support.
Plus COR merit with Winning Streak and relic+2 aug'd and empry +2 body, gives 7 mins 49s buffs. It's close to 2/3 of Pre-nerf embrava?! (In fact with new SP, 3rd inc too, possible close to a good 7mins 49s of Embrava)

Of course, buffs taking longer time to complete due to double-up, if first double-up didn't give lucky roll.
And second roll and third roll can only be done after floor jumped.

Bonus -
speed movement + at lamp floor helps a little.
Loaded Deck - helps a little on reset some JA.
Extra Dmg always welcome ^.^

My runs rarely has to get SCH cure, but that was back to original SCH embrava.

It kinda debating

It not subjet to debate, COR is useless. SMN's enfire + haste ga + fleet wind is going to be a lot more helpful than lol movement speed on bad rolls, faster casting (1 buff per floor), longer duration (all at 5 minutes) etc ... Also whatever cor does, bard does it better. Balance etc. Inbefore chaos roll is useful in nyzlulz, mobs getting one shotted etc.

I know personnally that after our ADl we used to farm odious item with the ADL setup : MNKx4, brd singing march x 2 paeon x 2 and SMN doing hastega. Demons are bitch mobs even when decent challenge, so they are definitely harder than nyzlulz mobs, yet the paeons were enough to keep HP max. The nice part of SMN is 5 min+ haste buff and movement speed ga. Regain roll is fairly useless on most floor.

[Eldelphia]

I was thinking SCH stays, while COR can do more than support.
It kinda debating

Absolutely but the SCH doesn't usually go (i.e. follow DD) to cure so much as to wake people, paralyna etc. Make a COR sub whm and you're gimping em and I don't think /DNC will keep up or be worthwhile.

I can see all sorts of solutions but expect BRD+SCH and 4 x DD to be a popular answer.

Oh fuck me, I don't want to go evolith hunting...

Oh god... SE were always upset we didn't go for their evolith game...

[Taint]

We won NN a bunch of times with 3 DDs,2 SCH. (buyer for last spot)

I think that will be the way to go. SCH,SCH,BRD,DDx3

[Churchill]

COR is an incredibly useful tool for about all of the floors that aren't lamps that you cringe on.