Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[fantasticdan]

This problem is specific to SMN. No other pet class was designed to have the master stay on the back line while the pet takes the hits and deals the damage up front.

Pup and bst have still always been better at that role thou, outside of zombieing.

[Spira]

Pup and bst have still always been better at that role thou, outside of zombieing.

BS. i have all of them leveled and know what im talking about.

now, yes. but not always.

Before Abyssea and especially pre-Ready, if a BSTs threw pets and laid back it was mainly a battle of attrition, or the case of a high level Familiared charmy, which was not available for much of the end-game. With Ready and Snarl, there is no good reason why a BST would choose to sit back unless there are deadly aoes in the way.. because the pet is inefficient as a DD in and of itself. BST pets truly shined after 76 tho.

As for PUP, the job has come a long way sure.. but outside of Abyssea and before the attachment overhaul in late 2011, there was no way an automaton could on any frame sustain keeping a challenging mob at bay better than an avatar could, even with DEA.

[dasva]

So think the increase in healing buffing etc will bring back the /brd bots and the people that love to mpk them?

[NynJa]

I doubt it...Reives are so short lasting unless you're alone, not to mention when the mobs are killed they tend to pop in the back and aggro from behind. Theres no hiding room really.

[Spira]

have fun in morimar

[ronin sparthos]

Idk whats with the /BRD bots fears, the amount of AOEs flying around its pretty easy to fight an AOE using mob and kill anyone attempting to script their way to bayld.

SE needs to hurry up and fix mages getting EXP for doing magey things.

[dasva]

Interesting. Haven't done much myself. Some of my ls mentioned some are big enough to have hiding places. Well could just pet with sneak/invisible suppose

[fantasticdan]

BS. i have all of them leveled and know what im talking about.

now, yes. but not always.

Before Abyssea and especially pre-Ready, if a BSTs threw pets and laid back it was mainly a battle of attrition, or the case of a high level Familiared charmy, which was not available for much of the end-game. With Ready and Snarl, there is no good reason why a BST would choose to sit back unless there are deadly aoes in the way.. because the pet is inefficient as a DD in and of itself. BST pets truly shined after 76 tho.

As for PUP, the job has come a long way sure.. but outside of Abyssea and before the attachment overhaul in late 2011, there was no way an automaton could on any frame sustain keeping a challenging mob at bay better than an avatar could, even with DEA.

Please list some "challenging mobs" you soloed at 75 on smn without avatar zombieing.

[Spira]

its annoying how inconsistent the size of reives are. With places like Sih Gates, your effective range is like 24' from the knotted root and the craklaws can stray pretty far. hennetiel is impossible to AFK in because the radius around the palms is like 16'.

On the other hand, Cirdas's range is almost the same as Sih Gates, but Acuex and i think obdella (can't remember) don't wander as much as the crabs, so you can afk at a distance. im referring to this from experience of soloing reives using bst.

finally, we have Morimar Basalt Fields, which are perfect for AFKing and have multiple safe spots. The radius of the reive extends to well beyond 33' from the crags, which gives you a lot of room to stand around safely. that said, its not hard for people to mpk you simply by aggroing a mob, running towards you and then running out of reive range to drop aggro. if brd bots do appear, we'll know how to handle them.

as an added note, you can lose exp in reives so there's less incentive in terms of safety.

@dasva> yeah we had 3 smn and were basically bringing down the crags for people who didn't have it and were just standing around >_>

@fantasticdan > do i sense a backpedal? zombieing =/= avatar zombieing. it isn't particularly consequential how many times an avatar dies if it gets the job done faster/safer than the other 2 jobs mentioned, but fine i'll humor you. E-vase-ive Action.

[Damane]

its annoying how inconsistent the size of reives are. With places like Sih Gates, your effective range is like 24' from the knotted root and the craklaws can stray pretty far. hennetiel is impossible to AFK in because the radius around the palms is like 16'.

On the other hand, Cirdas's range is almost the same as Sih Gates, but Acuex and i think obdella (can't remember) don't wander as much as the crabs, so you can afk at a distance. im referring to this from experience of soloing reives using bst.

finally, we have Morimar Basalt Fields, which are perfect for AFKing and have multiple safe spots. The radius of the reive extends to well beyond 33' from the crags, which gives you a lot of room to stand around safely. that said, its not hard for people to mpk you simply by aggroing a mob, running towards you and then running out of reive range to drop aggro. if brd bots do appear, we'll know how to handle them.

as an added note, you can lose exp in reives so there's less incentive in terms of safety.

@dasva> yeah we had 3 smn and were basically bringing down the crags for people who didn't have it and were just standing around >_>

@fantasticdan > do i sense a backpedal? zombieing =/= avatar zombieing. it isn't particularly consequential how many times an avatar dies if it gets the job done faster/safer than the other 2 jobs mentioned, but fine i'll humor you. E-vase-ive Action.

that might be true, but you need to hit the root in order to be evaluated at all no? So afking isnt quiet possible. Besides if you hit the root only once and everyone else dies, the mobs will go on for you then.

[solracht]

Besides if you hit the root only once and everyone else dies, the mobs will go on for you then.

Nope, unless you were in pt with the people that died

[Rocl]

that might be true, but you need to hit the root in order to be evaluated at all no? So afking isnt quiet possible. Besides if you hit the root only once and everyone else dies, the mobs will go on for you then.

what? as long as your pet is hitting the root, you're hitting the root, you're getting an evaluation. that's the whole thing Fight/Deploy/Assault on the root/crag etc, run away and afk. If no mobs wander towards you, you're good to go. Worst case scenario you use sneak/invis. The only way the monsters will aggro you after killing someone is if you're in the party of the scrub who got killed.

[solracht]

That said, mantids and turtles have aoe on their standard attacks so it's very easy to screw with BSTs/SMNs who are afk.

[Spira]

its not really an issue if you venture further than ceizak/yahse.

Cirdas has a good number of reives to do that no one really bothers with other than soloing plds and smns/bsts. morimar has quite a number of reives too. if you can make your way far back enough, no one else will be there to bother you.. especially since not a lot of people like to go there, and not that many have Demolition (yet)

[Jem]

Nope, unless you were in pt with the people that died

That doesn't match up with what I've experienced. I've been 'MPK'ed' several times from someone charging in headfirst and dying. Even though I'm stood at the edge of the reive and have done nothing whatsoever, mobs then wander over and attack me. Same deal with reraising and waiting on weakness.

It seems like once the mobs turn aggressive, they hunt down everyone with Reive status before going idle.

[NynJa]

I agree with Jem's assessment, that seems to be the case. You can run through without S/I if you so desire, but once the root/nest is attacked, the mobs seem to hunt people down.

[Damane]

That doesn't match up with what I've experienced. I've been 'MPK'ed' several times from someone charging in headfirst and dying. Even though I'm stood at the edge of the reive and have done nothing whatsoever, mobs then wander over and attack me. Same deal with reraising and waiting on weakness.

It seems like once the mobs turn aggressive, they hunt down everyone with Reive status before going idle.

^
This is also my experience

[Spira]

my observations are..

1) mobs are passive if root/crag/palm aren't being attacked

2) when root/crag/palm is attacked, mobs become aggressive and seem to aggro both sight and sound, regardless of mob family's natural aggro pattern

3) if you're in a pt and get aggro and die, the mobs will hunt down all your party members in the reive, no matter where they are

[solracht]

@the posts above Spira's

As someone who has been getting afk bayld since the expansion came out, that hasn't happened to me once. Like Spira says (and like we reported in the colonization thread) mobs aggro to both sight and sound regardless of family. Are you sure you had both buffs when you aggroed?

I haven't bothered checking what I'm about to say but their hearing range seems bigger than normal too.

[Jem]

No this is without S/I but it's also definitely not them 'aggroing' (barring obscene aggro range) in the conventional way. Like here's an example that happened to me yesterday.

PLD is solo holding mobs right next to the root. All facing him. I am on the very edge of the reive, ~25-30 away from the PLD. I have performed no actions whatsoever. The PLD dies and the mobs immediately turn and come attack me without any pausing/idling whatsoever.

Can't be sight aggro because they are facing the opposite way to me. For it to be sound aggro they would have to sound aggro from 25+ away. Can't be party/ally hate as I am solo. Plus they immediately came for me, there was no passive state in between them killing the PLD and coming for me. It was like I was the next person on the hate list.