Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[grevenilvec75]

But I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too.

We could have actually. They could have left pdif (or whatever it is) caps alone and just adjusted level correction and gave mobs lower attack values.

But instead SE did what SE always does: The last thing anyone wanted them to do.

[NynJa]

But instead SE did what SE always does:

You mean work in extremes?

[Yubar]

So SE cared more about keeping certain things secret instead of testing it out and seeing if ran smoothly?

[Prothescar]

Oh no, we'll have to use our strong buffs that previously had effectively no downsides, even though they were supposed to, more intelligently and think about using, gasp, defensive buffs instead of only offensive ones and zerging everything. The horror.

[Rocl]

I, for one, welcome our new Protectra5 merit overlords.

[chichicha]

I just preferred that they could have done and complete what they promised/ announced/ half done... Before they want to play with Enmity, Attack and Defence adjustments.

What I see now, there are many things that they left halfway.


I feel more on this way that they are thinking...
"Hey, we need new works for our staffs, let's change something and brand it a new system to freshen up our customers"

[Alkar]

It's the first stage of several. If you expected it to be perfect then I don't know what to tell you.

I never expected it to be perfect but completely screwing over certain jobs is not an option. This is something that would've easily been spotted if they decided to apply these changes to the test server but no, they had to release it without any testing done.
And these are issues they have aknowledged already so it's obviously not stuff that was intended to be this way.
No, this does not mean that they should've delayed or changed anything about the stuff but implemented something else with it to counter these issues or at least allow us to give proper feedback before making it go live on the real servers.
Why even have a test server if you're not going to use it?

[Buffy]

The only thing from the 1st wave of enmity changes that seemed like they did poorly and/or forgot was how it affected enhancing magic. It was immediately too easy for a mage to pull hate. they've clearly acknowledged this as they are cutting everything in half, but *that* seems like it got missed. The fact that I hate pet jobs makes me care less about bst and smn.

[Obsidian]

We could have actually. They could have left pdif (or whatever it is) caps alone and just adjusted level correction and gave mobs lower attack values.

But instead SE did what SE always does: The last thing anyone wanted them to do.

All that would have done is make Paladin even more worthless.

The only thing truly negatively impacted by the attack/defense change was Counterstance.

Edit: Forgot about Last Resort. I don't play DRK.

[Jem]

All that would have done is make Paladin even more worthless.

The only thing truly negatively impacted by the attack/defense change was Counterstance.

It makes a pretty large difference on DRK too since Last Resort is such a huge chunk of their DPS.

The changes were needed and I don't mind them in a party set-up. Not being able to solo as effectively on Apoc DRK sucks though. It's doable but just way worse than before and deaths can actually happen depending on mob. Dying to level 100-102 mobs is a pretty eye opening experience compared to how it used to be for Apoc. That's both playing offensively and defensively.

But yeah, necessary change so just need to suck it up.

[Sho]

So pretty much some of you wanted the current enmity system to persist until now? Come on, have a little faith in SE. Tanaka is gone, Wada is gone, Matsui is here now. Furthermore, Matsui has been the battle designer for this, FFIV, FFV, & FFXIV. Only now he has full control.

He got this. Give him time.

[Jem]

Sidenote but has a date been announced for the update this month? I'm guessing no so it's probably next Monday?

[Rocl]

Sidenote but has a date been announced for the update this month? I'm guessing no so it's probably next Monday?

April 31st! But no, no date was announced afaik, just 'late April.'

[dasva]

Only thing with enmity and att/def updates I'm sad about is they barely touched the positive side of att/def. I mean making downsides actually be downsides is perfectly legit but would be nice to also have greater benefit from overwhelming def too. Lowering the lvl correct is a step in the right direction... but I feel that shouldn't even exist in the first place. I mean we don't get att bonuses against mobs we are higher lvl then. The idea that regardless of stats they should hit harder and take less just because they are higher lvl but if we are higher lvl we wont necessarily take less dmg or hit harder is kinda wtf.

[Foldypaws]

Only thing with enmity and att/def updates I'm sad about is they barely touched the positive side of att/def. I mean making downsides actually be downsides is perfectly legit but would be nice to also have greater benefit from overwhelming def too. Lowering the lvl correct is a step in the right direction... but I feel that shouldn't even exist in the first place. I mean we don't get att bonuses against mobs we are higher lvl then. The idea that regardless of stats they should hit harder and take less just because they are higher lvl but if we are higher lvl we wont necessarily take less dmg or hit harder is kinda wtf.

Level Correction doesn't exist in Andolin.

[dasva]

Level Correction doesn't exist in Andolin.

They said that was an idea they were considering. Update notes says they just lowered lvl correction. No mention of anything Andolin specific

[Byrthnoth]

They needed to add some difficulty back to the game. I'm glad they did it in a way that revitalizes Defense as a stat while simultaneously pushing 1H and 2H weapon users closer together.

As far as the enmity problems, like how enhancing magic pulls hate. I have to say that I think it makes sense. If I was playing as Tiamat and wanted to wipe the annoying alliance fighting me as quickly as possible, I would kill the healers, the bards, the DDs, and then finally turn and kill the annoying paladins. Obviously we have to give players some control over monster Enmity so that tanks can tank, but enhancing magic should carry enmity costs proportional to its usefulness. I think SE is idiots for adjusting this and Cure downwards and if anything then it should be adjusted upwards to increase the difficulty (make my ideal kill order more likely). This would make FFXI a more challenging game that requires people use strange abilities like Provoke and maybe even bring tanks to stuff. Bards should have almost as much difficulty keeping hate off themselves as White Mages, etc.

[pancakesandsex]

Wrong thread.

[Hitou]

They needed to add some difficulty back to the game. I'm glad they did it in a way that revitalizes Defense as a stat while simultaneously pushing 1H and 2H weapon users closer together.

As far as the enmity problems, like how enhancing magic pulls hate. I have to say that I think it makes sense. If I was playing as Tiamat and wanted to wipe the annoying alliance fighting me as quickly as possible, I would kill the healers, the bards, the DDs, and then finally turn and kill the annoying paladins. Obviously we have to give players some control over monster Enmity so that tanks can tank, but enhancing magic should carry enmity costs proportional to its usefulness. I think SE is idiots for adjusting this and Cure downwards and if anything then it should be adjusted upwards to increase the difficulty (make my ideal kill order more likely). This would make FFXI a more challenging game that requires people use strange abilities like Provoke and maybe even bring tanks to stuff. Bards should have almost as much difficulty keeping hate off themselves as White Mages, etc.

I'm all for endgame fights being more than 30 min of buffing/gathering and 2 min of zerging crap down. But I don't see how making mages a pain the the ass to play would help make fights more fun. Buffing should pull hate? Why? Wouldn't that just bring back RDM tanking? Bards should pull hate for doing it's only duty in the entire game? Ok. Wouldn't that bring back BRD tanking? If I'm on a mage and casting buffs on the DD is gonna get me killed, what am I probably not going to cast anymore? If a DD is bleeding HP and curing them is gonna get me killed, I'd just let them die and let the mob go back to the tank. Aren't people already using hate tools like voke etc to keep hate on them? Are buffs really pulling that much hate right now that lowering their enmity is going to change anything?

It makes sense for cures to pull hate so you have to be careful on whm, but for some reason they decided Cure IV should be whm's most efficient cure and doesn't give nearly the enmity it used to anymore. So again, not disagreeing with you, but just confused how what you described would make things better.

[Alkar]

So pretty much some of you wanted the current enmity system to persist until now? Come on, have a little faith in SE. Tanaka is gone, Wada is gone, Matsui is here now. Furthermore, Matsui has been the battle designer for this, FFIV, FFV, & FFXIV. Only now he has full control.

He got this. Give him time.

No, I simply wanted these changes implemented first on the test server before the launch of Adoulin. I don't think it's that unreasonable considering that's the whole purpose of the server to begin with.