Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Scythiroth]

There is no way people are going to be happy just getting the WS from RME weapons, especially with the whole mythic WSs being available to everyone already lol. They better rethink that plan.

[TacoTaru]

It's ok, you would only have to get the weapon to 99 first go get the WS with this plan!

[Shenrien]

-_- wow, that does sound disappointing. I feel that if they would release a quest if you had a 99 r/m/e that you could unlock the weapon skill permanently and use it on other weapons, maintain the WSD+% that the weapon gave via a KI, and the r/m/e issue would be slightly curved, you may lose your aftermath but you could carry on with some of the best weapon skills in the game for higher damage weapons.

[Squah]

A lot of the WS would be very underperforming if they didn't maintain the +40% WS damage, so I hope they take that into consideration as well.


TBH though I kind of hope that they just buff the weapons themselves. I don't really want to use an Ivory Sickle on my DRK when I have a golden unique model sitting in my inventory.

[Jem]

It's ok guys, I got it! You need a 99 Relic, Empy or Mythic to unlock your jobs new 1 hour ability! That's why they've been pushing them back!

I do find it kinda funny that the one of the new Greatswords is called Bereaver though. So appropriate for the Ragnawagon.

They'd need a pretty radical overhaul or bonus to make a 99 R/E/M wortwhile. WS just isn't going to cut it outside a select few.

EDIT: I guess something unique could work too like making them deal non-elemental damage or increasing the pDIF cap for those weapons or giving them a pDIF boost on all swings or something. At least that would give them situational use.

[macross]

At this point it doesn't look like the new high damage weapons are going to be hard to get at all. Maybe a month or so of work solo? Why not just increase weapon damage and actually give useful WS mods to the ones that have awful mods as a start? Would it really be game breaking at this point? The new weapons should be much, much easier to get than relics anyway within a month or so once the content is figured out

Can do them in a day, don't need no month lol. I've already got 15000/30000 for a weapon in 1 day.

Just let us keep the AM and the 99 mods and all is good.

War can't even use the new gswords, gonna drop my reso and get upheval I guess, till I get my ukkos back hopefuly.

[Denmork]

I few of the Emp WSs would be worth it (Fudo and Ukko's are easy picks) but this option seems to screw over mythic builders greatly.

[Slycer]

As sad as it sounds, it's possible that the intent of these new weapons was specifically to put a nail in the coffin of RME. With Salvage +1 and NNI armor already getting outclassed, Alex supplies will drop. Voidwatch armor and weapons becoming useless will drop the supply of plates and void-stuff. Currency market was crashing even before this update and will continue to do so.

Outclassing the rewards for these events will greatly diminish the new supply of currency created as a side-effect which will make it more and more difficult (once again) to complete RME as the source events of currencies become useless for anything but the currency. So, from that perspective, it's almost as if they are nipping that problem in the bud.

By giving the WS instead of upgrading the weapon in a way that will likely remain inferior to the new weapons anyway, they're kind of throwing a bone to those who completed RME, which I suppose is better than nothing, and at the same time making sure they don't make it particularly attractive to start the upgrade process on a new weapon. Best scenario is that the weapon skills will retain their boosted damage and perhaps a scaled down version of their aftermath so that they become useful (and so that mythic WS get upgraded).

For better or for worse, I can't foresee an outcome where the 99 RME weapon itself remains on top.

[noodles355]

Hahahahahaha "You can already unlock mythic WS with a quest."
"We haven't finished testing and verifying this idea yet so I can not answer this comment"

Wow, just wow. I still can't believe that's the best they can come up with. I literally thought of this just now. In one word I can provide a solution that:
Makes REMC the top weapons again.
Makes them harder to obtain than top Delve weapons.
Does not go against the Dev's previous statements of not raising base dmg on the base weapons.
Fixes the current crapper stats on some of them.
Keeps in line with previous FF lore.

Synergy. Simple.

Add a material (or multiple materials) to delve (and other SoA content). Make a max level synergy recipe using the 99 REMC, resulting in a new version of the weapon. Eg.
Ukonvasara + [SoA endgame materials] = Ukonvasara II
Excalibur (Afterglow) + [SoA endgame materials] = Excalibur II (Afterglow)
Yagrush + [SoA endgame mats] = Yagrush II

It would also give them a chance to add additional stats, or change add effects on the relics. Like:
Mandau
DMG:55 Delay:176
Attack+40
"Mercy Stroke"
Additional effect: Poison

Mandau II
DMG:112 Delay:176
Attack+50 Accuracy+50
"Mercy Stroke"
Additional Effect: Plague

Ukonvasara
DMG:156 Delay:482 STR+20
"Ukko's Fury"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage

Ukonvasara II
DMG:286 Delay:482 STR+40
"Ukko's Fury"
Aftermath: Occ. deals triple damage

Ryunohige
DMG:151 Delay:492
Augments jump attacks V
"Drakesbane" Aftermath (Incl. Wyvern):
Increases Acc./Atk.
Occasionally attacks twice or thrice

Ryunohige
DMG:278 Delay:492
Augments Spirit Jump
Augments Soul Jump
"Drakesbane"
Aftermath (Incl. Wyvern):
Increases Acc./Atk.
Occasionally attacks 2-4 times.

Not the most polished idea, but certainly better than the "99 versions might get their ws I guess, idk" they're giving us now.

Edit:
Claustrum
DMG:113 Delay:390
Accuracy+40
"Gate of Tartarus"
Additional effect: Dispel
Afterglow

Claustrum II
DMG:197 Delay:390
"Magic Atk. Bonus" +100
"Gate of Tartarus"
Additional effect: Dispel
Afterglow

[Cleverness]

That response really shows they have no idea what the playerbase is mad about if they think unlocking the WS is an appropriate solution for those with 95. I don't understand the logic in a game where, unlike other stuff like WoW that you'd completely replace weapons and gear each instance, they encouraged SIDEGRADES so if you chose to do only certain events so you'd still have competitive gear and weapons, that now all of the sudden everything that was thought to still remain relevant because they would buff them accordingly to bring them in line with other things(the buff to relic and mythic WS awhile back) is now not relevant. And anyone with a 99 relic apparently can trade their ~150mil weapon in to access the weaponskill is an appropriate option for them? And god help them if they don't include Aftermath. "Losing the Aftermath is a trade off for using a higher damage weapon" will probably be the reasoning.

Yea they are making it real easy for me to decide whether I want to bother with 14 or not if they feel this is smart dev choices to completely turn over 10 years of game design on its head to try and appease new players.

[jPuff]

Thank god I'll get a good WS like Final Heaven for my 150m. I'm sure Rag owners are giddy as well.

[TummieGaruda]

Hahahahahaha

"You can already unlock mythic WS with a quest."

"We haven't finished testing and verifying this idea yet so I can not answer this comment"

I mean seriously. Here's a pretty simple solution that makes REMC damage better than new weapons again, whilst not going back on their words of "not raising the base damage or using trials of the magians", and making them more challenging to obtain than the new ones: Synergy.

Add a material (or multiple materials) to delve (and other SoA content). Make a max level synergy recipe using the 99 REMC, resulting in a new version of the weapon. Eg.
Ukonvasara + [SoA endgame materials] = Ukonvasara II
Excalibur (Afterglow) + [SoA endgame materials] = Excalibur II (Afterglow)
Yagrush + [SoA endgame mats] = Yagrush II

It would also give them a chance to add additional stats, or change add effects on the relics. Like:
Mandau
DMG:55 Delay:176
Attack+40
"Mercy Stroke"
Additional effect: Poison

Mandau II
DMG:112 Delay:176
Attack+50 Accuracy+50
"Mercy Stroke"
Additional Effect: Plague

Ukonvasara
DMG:156 Delay:482 STR+20
"Ukko's Fury"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage

Ukonvasara II
DMG:286 Delay:482 STR+40
"Ukko's Fury"
Aftermath: Occ. deals triple damage

Ryunohige
DMG:151 Delay:492
Augments jump attacks V
"Drakesbane" Aftermath (Incl. Wyvern):
Increases Acc./Atk.
Occasionally attacks twice or thrice

Ryunohige
DMG:278 Delay:492
Augments Spirit Jump
Augments Soul Jump
"Drakesbane"
Aftermath (Incl. Wyvern):
Increases Acc./Atk.
Occasionally attacks 2-4 times.

Not the most polished idea, but certainly better than the "99 versions might get their ws I guess, idk" they're giving us now.

Or, take your idea and their idea, combine them, and make aftermath applicable to any WS you use with R/M/E

[Darkmagi]

I can't see them going through with this idea. I can't imagine not quitting if my 99 weapons become completely useless.

[Kyte]

lolgoogle translate, but the JPs seem to be bitching pretty hard in shout/yell.

I'm not sure how I feel (EDIT: actually, thinking about it more broadly, I know how I feel- it's a moronic idea that only somewhat works for a few weapons) about their solution myself. From the perspective of BLU, these new high-DMG weapons force us to use Requiescat instead of CDC, which while not awful in general and quite good on select targets, is incredibly awkward to gear. BLU owed much of its resurgence to Almace/CDC; in a world where everyone else is using their typically better, easier to gear WS, I fear BLU would fall behind. Furthermore, almost every other job has been given significant upgrades in their WS gear; BLU has been given mostly sidegrades and easier to obtain, but inferior, alternatives for Requiescat.

[NynJa]

Vastly outclass a weapon that they KNOW costs in the range of 150-600 million gil, and then act surprised when the playerbase flips the fuck out? Were they really not expecting this kinda backlash?

[jPuff]

As sad as it sounds, it's possible that the intent of these new weapons was specifically to put a nail in the coffin of RME. With Salvage +1 and NNI armor already getting outclassed, Alex supplies will drop. Voidwatch armor and weapons becoming useless will drop the supply of plates and void-stuff. Currency market was crashing even before this update and will continue to do so.

Outclassing the rewards for these events will greatly diminish the new supply of currency created as a side-effect which will make it more and more difficult (once again) to complete RME as the source events of currencies become useless for anything but the currency. So, from that perspective, it's almost as if they are nipping that problem in the bud.

By giving the WS instead of upgrading the weapon in a way that will likely remain inferior to the new weapons anyway, they're kind of throwing a bone to those who completed RME, which I suppose is better than nothing, and at the same time making sure they don't make it particularly attractive to start the upgrade process on a new weapon. Best scenario is that the weapon skills will retain their boosted damage and perhaps a scaled down version of their aftermath so that they become useful (and so that mythic WS get upgraded).

For better or for worse, I can't foresee an outcome where the 99 RME weapon itself remains on top.

If I'm being honest with myself you're probably right. It sounds like he thought the playerbase would take this sitting down and the team would just eventually add old weaponskills as a "fun bonus" later. Now due to the backlash he's playing the only card he has.

[Darkmagi]

The amount of detachment from the player base is really staggering. I felt really good about delve, but this kind of stuff just makes me want to quit at the stupidity.

[noodles355]

Or, take your idea and their idea, combine them, and make aftermath applicable to any WS you use with R/M/E

I like this. I'd hapily take my Relic Aftermath whilst still using Exenterator.

Edit: It would also give a reason to make certain Empyreans like Rhongomaint if you could get AM without being restricted to the shitty WS that activates it.

[Kincard]

Honestly, there have been literally pages and pages of solutions offered by the players in the past, so I don't understand why he's acting like this is somehow such a difficult thing to do.

Even putting that aside, how many new players does XI seriously attract? XI is still a highly newbie-unfriendly game because of the dearth of content at low levels. I don't think it has anything to do with them trying to attract new players, I think Matsui is honestly this disconnected from the playerbase, because we know he doesn't actually play the game all that much

[noodles355]

Eh, it's his first colossal fuck up since taking over. Up until now he's been praised by everyone because so much has been going well and heading in the right direction after the departure of Tanaka. As we know people are very quick to condemn someone, even if they have done great things in the past. Maybe he just doesn't know how to deal with it.