Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[fantasticdan]

Expecting to be rewarded for an incomplete weapon is pretty asinine. You can't take a 75 relic directly to 99, you have to do the other trials first, expecting this to work any differently is foolish.

If they're going to add further upgrades for RME weapons maybe, but if they were going to simply allow emp/relic ws to be unlocked like they were talking about, having it require level 99 weapons would be pretty dumb from a job balance perspective, or from that of SE wanting to retain customers.

I mean, a sam or a gsword drk can just pick up one of these new weapons and they're golden with shoha/reso, but a blu would be expected to burn well over a thousand dollars worth of gil getting almace to 99 just to get a decent weapon skill without a giant attack penalty? Or a thf getting emp dagger to 99 just so they have a decent SATA ws? Or scythe forever being useless unless without 99 apoc to unlock catastrophe?

Gating select jobs behind massive gil sinks/old content would be a horrible path to take, which is why they'll probably do it.

[Obsidian]

Expecting to be rewarded for an incomplete weapon is pretty asinine. You can't take a 75 relic directly to 99, you have to do the other trials first, expecting this to work any differently is foolish.

Why? I've put in a lot of work too. Never mind that getting any of them past 90 is going to become increasingly difficult as Voidwatch content continues to be marginalized (it's not party-able like Relic/Mythic trials are), why is it that the work you put in should be recognized, but the work I've put in shouldn't be? This entire shitstorm is about people feeling like they've wasted time on something no longer useful (let's all ignore that they were the be-all end-all for 2+ years, so your work was hardly invalidated). With the exception of Harp, the draw to most of those weapons was the weaponskill and Aftermath attached to them, so you could consider them "completed" at 85.

Regardless, why should one person's hard work be acknowledged and another's not? This whole shitstorm is about how your effort and work has been summarily shit on, but people seem pretty keen to flip the bird to everyone who hasn't sunk some arbitrary amount of gil into their weapons, and it reeks of hypocrisy. Why should the guy who's played every weekend with his wife for months to 85 his Rhongomiant get fucked out of an upgrade, while folks like Ejiin, who clearly have the means to obtain the ridonculous weapons from Delve, get a free buff just because he had more resources?

Buff them all, or buff none of them. Fuck this "you have to be this cool to qualify" bullshit.

[Prothescar]

What you're saying is, the casuals who take months to build an 85 emp should be rewarded the same as the people who spend double, triple, quadruple the resources to make a 99 weapon. It isn't the fault of the people who put in 2~4x the resources as the player with an 85 weapon that the person with the 85 weapon can't get to 99. It disqualifies the work of the person who got their weapon to 99 if the person with 85 gets the same bonuses that they do.

By all means, continue to cry into your pancakes, but logic infers that a lv 85~95 weapon is meant for the 85~95 "stepping stone" content, not the lv 99 content that you need the 99+ weapons for.

[arus2001]

That's a problem that can be worked around, but yeah, Thief's Knife all over again.

[Kaisha]

What you're saying is, the casuals who take months to build an 85 emp should be rewarded the same as the people who spend double, triple, quadruple the resources to make a 99 weapon. It isn't the fault of the people who put in 2~4x the resources as the player with an 85 weapon that the person with the 85 weapon can't get to 99. It disqualifies the work of the person who got their weapon to 99 if the person with 85 gets the same bonuses that they do.

By all means, continue to cry into your pancakes, but logic infers that a lv 85~95 weapon is meant for the 85~95 "stepping stone" content, not the lv 99 content that you need the 99+ weapons for.

The thing I find that's kinda stupid, is that it'd be easier to just build a WoE weapon and take that to 99 for way cheaper than getting 1500 HMP and however many dross/cinder.

It's a joke compared to REM, and I'm surprised they're even considering them too.

[Prothescar]

That's what leads me to believe that there's more to it that they aren't able to tell us yet, and is why I'm not jumping to conclusions like everyone else is, apparently. The system isn't finalized, he said it like 4 times in the post, no need for anyone to be militant about it yet.

[Selamis]

They also said they have no idea what to do in order to make everyone not rage quit, but still have progression in game...this is a pretty big blunder tbh, they had to expect backlash. I'd simple say the logical fix, lower the damage on the new weapons a bit, and raise REM weapons damage more, I'm ok with slightly higher damage but to be 100 points higher than weapons that previously were for the most part, the best in game...that's just ridiculous.

[falseliberty]

85 weapons as work... hard work in a video game brah, gimmie a break.
What bothers me more are events like salvage 2.0 and meebles just came out and they completely invalidated by new stuff. And I really liked salvage and meebles

Why did they even bother spending all that time re balancing all the events for embrava and PD nerf if they was just gonna go GTFO ADOULIN ONLY

lack of priority's? idk

[Obsidian]

What you're saying is, the casuals who take months to build an 85 emp should be rewarded the same as the people who spend double, triple, quadruple the resources to make a 99 weapon. It isn't the fault of the people who put in 2~4x the resources as the player with an 85 weapon that the person with the 85 weapon can't get to 99. It disqualifies the work of the person who got their weapon to 99 if the person with 85 gets the same bonuses that they do.

By all means, continue to cry into your pancakes, but logic infers that a lv 85~95 weapon is meant for the 85~95 "stepping stone" content, not the lv 99 content that you need the 99+ weapons for.

Let's take this train of thought all the way through to the end then, and say that only Afterglow weapons should qualify for the buff, otherwise you're invalidating all the work they put into getting the afterglow effect, right?

You can keep crying into your wallet, but logic infers that a 99 REM is meant for the pre-Adoulin content, not Delves and whatever else is coming that you're going to need the higher base damage weapons for.

Edit: I'm not saying 85s should just get bumped to be even with 99s, I'm saying that 85-95 shouldn't get left to rot. Whatever is done should scale through all iterations of the weapon.

[Kohan]

Why did they even bother spending all that time re balancing all the events for embrava and PD nerf if they was just gonna go GTFO ADOULIN ONLY

It's not as nonsensical as you think. Believe it or not, a reasonable amount of people have not bought Adoulin. Some never will. Some have never purchased Abyssea, nor the three add-ons that preceded it. Some don't even have WotG, although that number is significantly smaller nowadays.

Expansion level aside, returning players with a casual Linkshell (or no Linkshell at all) may have an easier time assembling groups for the older content. It's still useful for them, as Wildskeeper Reives may not be within their reach anytime soon, and they need something to do.

Considering that it did not require the creation of any new assets, and only necessitated development time, adding Salvage 99 was not as expensive nor time consuming as creating Adoulin, and can still exist alongside it.

[noodles355]

I really hope they completely scratch that idea and think up something completely different.

I mean they obviously put no thoguht into it. The solution doesn't work for any of the three weapon types.

Empy: Coin weapon costs like what, 10m? Empy is 130-200m (depending on dross/cinder and paying for 80/85/90 mats). All 85/90/95 empy owners might as well leave their weapons where they are and drop some cash on a quick coin weapon.

Relic: Only four weapons are actually made for the WS (Bow/Gun/Dagger/Scythe). All others are made either for AM or their superior DPS with merit WSs.

Mythic: You can already unlock the mythic WS. Only two DD mythics actually uses it's mythic WS outside of activating AM. Every other mythic is made for AM, or augments on the weapon.

It's not just that it'll bone over mythic users, it'll bone over owners of all three.

Oh, and to whoever said there was only like 3-4 good mythics, I can think of at least 8. Kenkonken, Ryunohige, Liberator, Kogasamemaru, Burtgang, Carnwenhan, Yagrush, Death Penalty. 9 if you include Terpsicore. Nirvana was also good until Skirmish.

[Kohan]

I really hope they completely scratch that idea and think up something completely different.

They probably will. As the NA and JP userbases are both about universally disgusted, it would be financial suicide not to bow, and before anyone says "it's SE, you never know," you actually do—it's an incredibly substantial money earner for the company, and damaging it would be one of the costliest things they could possibly do.

Say what you want to about how much they care about their customers, but they're still a business, and they don't want to cease operating. This is just a concept, and that doesn't mean it's what they're going to implement.

[Kincard]

Honestly, even ignoring RME there's all kinds of other weapons that got killed that also lowers the diversity in gearing.

Gusterion? M.maru? Any non-GAX for WAR? Even things like phurba. I mean, I know people usually didn't care about these things/say they're useless but I kinda liked that sort of weapon diversity and now it got exchanged for basically a one-weapon system where the only stat that matters is D.

That's why I want to say they should lower delve weapon D instead of spending time just making redundant weapons with really high D, but yeah there's that problem of making the content impossible.

[Prothescar]

Let's take this train of thought all the way through to the end then, and say that only Afterglow weapons should qualify for the buff, otherwise you're invalidating all the work they put into getting the afterglow effect, right?

You can keep crying into your wallet, but logic infers that a 99 REM is meant for the pre-Adoulin content, not Delves and whatever else is coming that you're going to need the higher base damage weapons for.

Edit: I'm not saying 85s should just get bumped to be even with 99s, I'm saying that 85-95 shouldn't get left to rot. Whatever is done should scale through all iterations of the weapon.

if it were up to me, afterglows would get a stronger boost than normal lv 99 relics. That said, buffing the lv 75~95 versions of the weapons by any considerable amount is not in line with this "content level" goal, weapons would require significant resource investment across the board for it to be a fair thing for everyone, no one should get it handed to them in that sort of a system. simply killing gukumatz 30 times shouldn't give me an almace with 120D or something.

[Dotsudoku]

Are we really comparing the gap between 99 and afterglow to 85-99? Do people really think it's logical or intuitive to believe that any changes are going to apply to weapons <99?

Wish-thinking taken to a new level. 90 Empyreans take a few days to complete, get out

[Kincard]

i mean just speaking for myself i care a lot more about adjustments to 99 weapons, but it is kinda weird that if i'm leveling war my weapon of choice off the ah goes from 128 at lv95 to 259 at lv99

[jPuff]

What you're saying is, the casuals who take months to build an 85 emp should be rewarded the same as the people who spend double, triple, quadruple the resources to make a 99 weapon. It isn't the fault of the people who put in 2~4x the resources as the player with an 85 weapon that the person with the 85 weapon can't get to 99. It disqualifies the work of the person who got their weapon to 99 if the person with 85 gets the same bonuses that they do.

By all means, continue to cry into your pancakes, but logic infers that a lv 85~95 weapon is meant for the 85~95 "stepping stone" content, not the lv 99 content that you need the 99+ weapons for.

It hardly seems fair to lump people with 95s in with 85 empy weapons. There are a lot of people mid work on these that aren't retardedly rich that are going to be hit hard by the game economy being completely upended. If the perks are going to need a 99 weapon they need to be at least as finishable as they were pre megaton patch, and that's not looking like the case in the current abysmal state of the game. A lot of people are/were willing to put the work in if it's actually reasonable or even worth it to continue at this point. And lets not forget that prior to the entire status quo being raped, many of the 95 relic weapons were perfectly fine as is if the 99 WS wasn't worth it. I'm not saying or expecting at this point to get a boost on 95s given Matsui's lack of addressing them but don't act like people with 95s are just jackholes wanting handouts. Plenty of money/work went into them regardless of being complete or not, and I think it deserves consideration as they're working on the problem in the form of keeping completion doable. And no, I don't think 85-90 empies should get the same shit, though I'm going to miss my gandiva :/

[Obsidian]

if it were up to me, afterglows would get a stronger boost than normal lv 99 relics. That said, buffing the lv 75~95 versions of the weapons by any considerable amount is not in line with this "content level" goal, weapons would require significant resource investment across the board for it to be a fair thing for everyone, no one should get it handed to them in that sort of a system. simply killing gukumatz 30 times shouldn't give me an almace with 120D or something.

Why should it work one way and not the other? If you think an 85 Almace would get 120D, do you think a 99 one would get 180 or something obscene? I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say that if a 99 is getting bumped to 110 (the Delve sword is 130 and has no Aftermath/CDC), an 85 should be raised in step (70? 80? I dunno). I do however think it's ridiculous and entirely hypocritical to say that Afterglow weapons should just get an even better buff than 99s because they're "better", when an hour ago only the final form of the weapon should get any buff at all. The guy who took two months to 85 his Redemption still spent the same amount of time as the guy who took two months to 99 his Ukonsvara. What makes the Ukon's time more valuable than the Redemption's? Nothing, other than the "BUT I'M SPECIAL" attitude the Ukon seems to have.

Square's concept is stupid, yes, but so is this ridiculous sense of entitlement and self-importance.

[Kaisha]

Could just make the system work like AF2 +2 trials. Let all applicable weapons be upgraded to a new tier, but the resulting trial's grind will depend on how far you took your weapon to 99 prior to the change.

[Toth]

Lower the DMG of the new weapons and also lower the difficulty or HP/defense of the mobs that would require these ridiculous weapons. Problem solved. Conversely, make these weapons Deive only with DMG outside about the same as Naakaul and Skirmish weapons. Problem again solved.