Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Slycer]

I think for the people without 99's who are complaining, it's less about their R/E being outclassed and more that they won't get whatever 'fix' is applied to the R/E/M's in future because their weapons are incomplete.


I think the IV/V only become accessible after ~15 minutes in Slycer like you say if you wait purely on the timer. I'd think a lot of people would still struggle to kill them in 30 mins if that is the case.

Could farm beads I/II/III outside for instant access (I assume).

[Jem]

I completely agree with you that if they want whatever incentive SE add for have a R/E/M then they need to 99 them. Just saying that's why they're complaining. They have a R/E so want whatever bonus SE gives to them without having to 99 them.

[Jem]

Could farm beads I/II/III outside for instant access (I assume).

That would be an option yeah. Although I would have my reservations about them being capable of downing I/II/III in under 20 minutes to farm the beads. I would imagine anybody who can kill I/II/III in under 20 minutes can also probably kill IV/V atm (or within 30 mins inside).

That's assuming the worst case and that they go with a 20 min depop timer outside.

[NynJa]

Like i said before, if SE renders VWs content obsolete (1>% drop rate on inferior gear compared to which you can farm in a couple days from delve), how are people going to get the 1500 HMPs and 60 rift items? ADL and PW shouldnt be a big deal if u got 3-4 friends.

[jPuff]

They are definitely going to need to rethink plates/cinders.

[Jem]

If the reward/incentive for having a 99 Empy is good enough where it would warrant people to upgrade it purely for that purpose, then I am positive there would be a supply of plates/dross/cinder. If there's a demand/market for those items, I'm sure people would kill VWNM's purely for gil. I imagine cinder/dross would be a bigger problem than plates.

The alternative is that they give the same reward to 99 Coin weapons which would be a kick in the crotch for 99 Empy holders.

[Kyte]

I completely agree with you that if they want whatever incentive SE add for have a R/E/M then they need to 99 them. Just saying that's why they're complaining. They have a R/E so want whatever bonus SE gives to them without having to 99 them.

I think if they put an incentive on the 99 (and objectively, they should), then they need to make damn sure plate/dross/cinder supply doesn't dwindle to zero.

EDIT: It might not not dwindle to exactly zero, but you can't argue that a sizeable percentage of the components on the market didn't come from people hoping for the other gear.

[Slycer]

In that case I would default back to the equipment progression cited by Iwagami.

i.e.

1) Kill I, II, or III inside fractures for KI
2) Grind, grind, grind and acquire and enhance the equipment you can obtain until you can...
3) Kill I, II, and III outside fractures for beads
4) Kill IV or V inside fractures for KI
5) Grind, grind, grind and acquire and enhance the weapons you can obtain until you can...
6) Kill IV and V (and I, II, or III) outside fractures for beads.
7) Try your luck at boss or continue to grind until you feel more confident.

From a high level, if you look at it like that, it actually sounds very well-designed. Obviously certain dumb things like Quick Draw x9000 can subvert the system, which is why I assume they are looking at putting a time limit in place.

Of course if you are geared and skilled well enough to begin with you can skip some of the first few steps, but I think they wanted to strongly discourage fights against field NMs taking a long time. The hyper mode doesn't really do that though, it kinda just makes people take even longer.

[dasva]

The alternative is that they give the same reward to 99 Coin weapons which would be a kick in the crotch for 99 Empy holders.

You mean the ws? Yeah though really should put the aftermath with the ws too. I mean it's an integral part of alot of weapons and well the only point of mythic... I mean we already have the ws <.<. Also should give the ws bonus from the 99 relic/mythic since none of the relic/mythic ws do any real dmg without it

[jPuff]

If the reward/incentive for having a 99 Empy is good enough where it would warrant people to upgrade it purely for that purpose, then I am positive there would be a supply of plates/dross/cinder. If there's a demand/market for those items, I'm sure people would kill VWNM's purely for gil. I imagine cinder/dross would be a bigger problem than plates.

The alternative is that they give the same reward to 99 Coin weapons which would be a kick in the crotch for 99 Empy holders.

People were barely doing VW before the patch (ymmv), so I guess I don't have the same level of confidence in that as you. Anyway at worst I hardly see the harm in more options. VW has lost a lot of luster (if that was still possible) post-patch even if the money drops are still there.

[NynJa]

If the reward/incentive for having a 99 Empy is good enough where it would warrant people to upgrade it purely for that purpose, then I am positive there would be a supply of plates/dross/cinder. If there's a demand/market for those items, I'm sure people would kill VWNM's purely for gil. I imagine cinder/dross would be a bigger problem than plates.

The alternative is that they give the same reward to 99 Coin weapons which would be a kick in the crotch for 99 Empy holders.

Youre overly hopeful

[Jem]

Well I know a fair few people who stopped doing VW because Plate price plummeted and selling them became harder. If the prices went back up again because there was an increased demand / short supply, then I'm sure more people would do VW again.

If the incentive for having a 99 Empyrean is really banging then the supply would be there. If it was pretty meh-ish then yeah, supply is going to be a problem. Entirely depends on what that incentive is really.

[ronin sparthos]

Add HMP / Rift-w/e to Skirmishes and Delve point pools.

[arus2001]

Kind of with Damane on the whole "let old content die already" line of thinking. It may seem bad now with Adoulin still being in its infancy and the whole "memories" angle some cling to, but assuming SE has no plans to drop XI support, then you'll be getting more events in the future, as well. Looking at things from the perspective of a new or returning player who maybe wasn't in on Abyssea, the giant conga line of progression some feel should remain intact just strikes me more as prohibitive and isolating. The only way someone could really hope to skip ahead here would be if a group of people were willing to carry their gimp asses, but that also doesn't quite seem a wise move with Delve in its current state. People have already touched on the event-related resource dwindling issue, including solutions like more/better drop locations or even a not-mentioned lowering of said requirements. I suppose I'm not seeing the difficulty on SE's end where having a 99 Ukon and trading it to someone would give you the "Spirit of Ukon" KI as well as unlocking the WS too all GAs. Having the KI will grant you the AM, while doing the same with Coin version wouldn't give you the KI. There, "IT'S NOT FAAAAIIIIR" solved. Mythic owners could actually get new JTs reflective of their weapons, too.

[Suteru]

I guess I can't complain, I'm a very casual player with an 85. Most of my friends have quit, and I really don't want to bother joining an HNM shell that expects me to treat FFXI like a job. But damn it I want a shiny.

e: The problem for me is that even if I do Delve and get the weapon, it's still just situational and not as clear cut of a winner vs. even my 85 weapon. If it was 100% better than Arma, I'd go for it and just say "fuck it" to upgrading the old weapon. Leaden Salute and Wildfire are magic-based, and excell at that, but they ignore the DMG of a weapon. Last Stand is good, but it's physical and there are more resistances to that than magical WS.

[Shenrien]

Add HMP / Rift-w/e to Skirmishes and Delve point pools.

and umbral marrows, too casual to go back to fodder content.

[dannyl]

I think for the people without 99's who are complaining, it's less about their R/E being outclassed and more that they won't get whatever 'fix' is applied to the R/E/M's in future because their weapons are incomplete.


I think the IV/V only become accessible after ~15 minutes in Slycer like you say if you wait purely on the timer. I'd think a lot of people would still struggle to kill them in 30 mins if that is the case.

Sadly, you just described me. I don't have a 99 relic, but guess what, on Saturday prior to the update I finally finished getting my club relic... you can imagine my dismay to find how insignificant that quickly became. And its not so much of my anger towards it, because I welcome having an awesome club later, but SE in a sense fucked up my priorities. Do I even bother grinding out my club trials or focus on the new shit. /sadtaru

[NynJa]

If the RMEs are to die and be outclassed...then so be it. There should be SOME form of legitimate carry over though for having a 99 RME (and not just the WS), some recognition that goes past "look my mannequin has a 99 ukon".


Btw Jem, you think its fair to require people to spent the next year (gil is useless when theres no supply, and not everyone is sitting on 400 mil to drop on a whim) 99ing their weapons JUST to then have to play catch up some more? That goes way beyond "suck less"

[Suteru]

If the RMEs are to die and be outclassed...then so be it. There should be SOME form of legitimate carry over though for having a 99 RME (and not just the WS), some recognition that goes past "look my mannequin has a 99 ukon".

The ranged ones don't even get that.

[dasva]

The ranged ones don't even get that.

Well r/e/m guns still better. Though that's only cause gun so far the gun gets the smallest upgrade by alot from these new weapons