Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Chamaan]

Hopefully the new weapons trivialize ADL to the point where marrows drop to something super affordable like 3m a piece. I got so burned out on Dynamis that I didn't want to run back in and essentially farm a whole second relic to 99 it. If they do upgrades that require a 99, well, I guess I have to. I've got some sour grapes but them's the breaks ya know? I understand completely and I can handle it like an adult.

That said, I AM in the camp of really hoping they bump up the power of 95's, because I just don't have a big enough LS to saddle up with and ride on ADL in a "help me get mine and I'll help you get yours" arrangement, but I'm not going to get all salty about it if they don't. I'm having stupid amounts of fun doing Delve. Big ass super fights in full effect. It's like it's 2004 again except we're not sitting around waiting on stupid gather times, idiots having to teleport back to town to change from /blm sub and hoofing it back to Sky, or fighting claim bots for Fafnirs. We can finally once again say "If I wanted an easy game I wouldn't be playing FFXI."

[Roundelk]

I don't know I feel like if you make Ultimate weapons available then you should always stick by them and adjust them accordingly per level cap increase or gear increase, now this doesn't stop them from making new ultimate weapons as long as they are in the same league as RME's and I wouldn't be mad if I 99'd my Almace for BLU and the new weapon is actually better but doesn't trump my Ragnarok or Annihilator. In all honesty though WS should have never been tied to a weapon I would if they adjusted that so we have all WS anyway and the RME's gave aftermath with whatever WS you use.

Edit: I also propose to NOT increase RME damage but to nerf the new weapons and the new NMs a little bit.

[Chamaan]

I don't want a step back at all. I'd much rather they just introduce a new set of shit for me to do to upgrade it. I'm totally fine with putting even MORE work into my Bravura. Damn thing's alive. He's my partner, and I want him to enjoy Adoulin too.

[Byrthnoth]

One of the most lulzy parts of this is that they had the opportunity to abandon Relics and Mythics and not set this precedence back when raising the cap from 75 and they chose not to. This is lulzy because:
1) It gave the apparently false impression that SE thinks Relics and Mythics deserve to be preserved.
2) The number of people with Relics and Mythics was much smaller back then and the outcry was proportionally smaller (about the trials at least).
3) There was no official forums, so they weren't even getting feedback directly from the players.

[Damane]

I don't want a step back at all. I'd much rather they just introduce a new set of shit for me to do to upgrade it. I'm totally fine with putting even MORE work into my Bravura. Damn thing's alive. He's my partner, and I want him to enjoy Adoulin too.

seriously after so many magian trials I am kind of fed up going out again and do some stupid shit for it. If they want the spirit of my Bravura be transfered to me with the aftermath, WSdmg+ and Evasion down add effect so be it, I am fine with that, if they want them to be upgradeable, then for godsake nothign that involves OLD content. You can see Dynamis/Limbus/Salvage/Abyssea etc. only so many times before you get fed up with it and the last time I touched dynamis was during double EXP weekend to do relic +2 trials. God I am even glad they are replacing Magian trial staves, so much inventory gained! Granted Delve will grow old too after a while i find it fantastiq.

However if they only allow 99 REMs to give out the WS only they are makeing a mistake.

Mythics 99 should transfer:
WSdmg + for the WS
Jobspecific ability/trait enhancement the Weapon has
Aftermath

Relic 99 should transfer:
WSdmg + for the WS
Weapons specific enhancement/debuff (like eva down GAX has and so on)
Aftermath
Occ. deals double/triple dmg

Empys 99:
WS
Aftermath
Extra stats they have (like STR+ etc)


Coin weapons 99:
only WS


There is alot of possibilitys with this, can you imagine stacking the stats a BLM mythic has with one of the new MAB staves? or a 99 Nirvana wiht one of the new SMN staves? of course they would still be way behind what melees would get of it.

People that put in time/gil/effort into doing all 3 REM 99 of one weapon category would benefit hugely from this. mythic aftermath with occ double/triple dmg from relics? a pld with excalibur add effec, occ. deals double and triple dmg and mythic aftermath while taking 18% less physical dmg over PDT cap? This would give you a whole new way to customize and perfect your 1 job you care the most about.

[Byrthnoth]

Your suggestion seems totally absurd... but a D+146/+96 delay H2H seems even more absurd.

I think the main problem they're running in to is that they didn't budget staff to deal with fixing the relationship of RMEs to the other weapons, and now they've probably got several planned tiers of content that require high damage weapons (thus making it difficult for them to just nerf the weapons they released) and no manpower left over.

[Rocl]

I don't want a step back at all. I'd much rather they just introduce a new set of shit for me to do to upgrade it. I'm totally fine with putting even MORE work into my Bravura. Damn thing's alive. He's my partner, and I want him to enjoy Adoulin too.

I'm not good with my italian but wouldn't -a be a feminine ending? Dude, your great axe is a girl.

[Jem]

One of the most lulzy parts of this is that they had the opportunity to abandon Relics and Mythics and not set this precedence back when raising the cap from 75 and they chose not to. This is lulzy because:
1) It gave the apparently false impression that SE thinks Relics and Mythics deserve to be preserved.
2) The number of people with Relics and Mythics was much smaller back then and the outcry was proportionally smaller (about the trials at least).
3) There was no official forums, so they weren't even getting feedback directly from the players.

Weirdly, if they had abandoned them back at 75 I'd have quit without hesitation whereas now I don't really mind that much apart from QQ no Cata drain.

[Byrthnoth]

Weirdly, if they had abandoned them back at 75 I'd have quit without hesitation whereas now I don't really mind that much apart from QQ no Cata drain.

See, but you would have been one of the two hundred people across all servers that quit. The loss from this will end up being much greater because everyone and their dog has a relic, mythic, or empyrean now.

Edit answer to Rocl:
Bravura isn't an adjective, it's a noun. In the romance languages, typically abstract concepts like Bravery are given the feminine case. It doesn't mean "your bravery is girly." It just means "bravery."

[Seha]

I'm not good with my italian but wouldn't -a be a feminine ending? Dude, your great axe is a girl.

It is feminine. The word bravura in italian means skill.

the more you know~

[Malithar]

Mythics 99 should transfer:
WSdmg + for the WS
Jobspecific ability/trait enhancement the Weapon has
Aftermath

Relic 99 should transfer:
WSdmg + for the WS
Weapons specific enhancement/debuff (like eva down GAX has and so on)
Aftermath
Occ. deals double/triple dmg

Empys 99:
WS
Aftermath
Extra stats they have (like STR+ etc)


Coin weapons 99:
only WS


There is alot of possibilitys with this, can you imagine stacking the stats a BLM mythic has with one of the new MAB staves? or a 99 Nirvana wiht one of the new SMN staves? of course they would still be way behind what melees would get of it.

People that put in time/gil/effort into doing all 3 REM 99 of one weapon category would benefit hugely from this. mythic aftermath with occ double/triple dmg from relics? a pld with excalibur add effec, occ. deals double and triple dmg and mythic aftermath while taking 18% less physical dmg over PDT cap? This would give you a whole new way to customize and perfect your 1 job you care the most about.

The problem with something like this is exactly what you outlined. How OP would all of that be? What kind of content would they have to develop to be a challenge to people who had all this? And how terribly outclassed would everyone who didn't have 3/3 RME KIs for their desired weapon be? If anyone thought the shouts for RME only DDs for VW and such (I'll give you Ig or Bot, but RME only for Qilin? gtfo) was bad, this would be unprecedented, to the point of alienating a very large majority of the player base from content.

Not saying people who've 99'd RMEs shouldn't get something, but something as overpowering as carrying on all aftermaths/add effects is creating far too much variance in player quality to balance around, or compete with.

[Byrthnoth]

The problem with something like this is exactly what you outlined. How OP would all of that be? What kind of content would they have to develop to be a challenge to people who had all this? And how terribly outclassed would everyone who didn't have 3/3 RME KIs for their desired weapon be? If anyone thought the shouts for RME only DDs for VW and such (I'll give you Ig or Bot, but RME only for Qilin? gtfo) was bad, this would be unprecedented, to the point of alienating a very large majority of the player base from content.

Not saying people who've 99'd RMEs shouldn't get something, but something as overpowering as carrying on all aftermaths/add effects is creating far too much variance in player quality to balance around, or compete with.

You say this like they didn't just add weapons with a 20% DPS advantage over the next best option that drop from one of the most exclusive events ever made.

Crazy is the new black.

[Chamaan]

B-B-...BRAVURA? *walks in on his childhood friend Bravura stepping out the bath and realizes for the first time that she's become a woman*

[nekura]

Don't touch it inappropriately.

[Malithar]

You say this like they didn't just add weapons with a 20% DPS advantage over the next best option that drop from one of the most exclusive events ever made.

Crazy is the new black.

Right, but its exclusive enough (talking about the crafted and HQs yeah?) to not be expected of people. The one's from Delve field NMs? Yeah, those will be required after a few more weeks I'm sure. Get in on a clear group, which can be rough, but soon enough I'm sure NM's weakness' will be figured out to the point that a PUG going through them isn't such a big deal, or even going and killing it in the fracture. After which, either get some Fracture farm groups going if you've got the time, or go get 200-300 of the stones from Reives/mobs over the course of a few weeks.

Its something that everyone from casuals to the hardcores can achieve in a comparabely short amount of time. But what if all of the aftermaths and shit carried over, requiring any job to have obtained them? Shit, playing most DD jobs without them would be crazy gimped comparatively, not just 20% or whatever behind. A War without them would lack 20% PDT, OA2-3, ODD, +8.3% attack on berserk, +14% crit, and Ukkos, ontop of prolly using the best weapon available. A non-RME KI'd War would be lucky to touch 30% of that War's DPS. Is that the kind of reward people should really get?

It used to be a good player with less gear (RME KI's in this case) could easily out DD/play a well geared player that wasn't paying any attention or just sucked. With shit like that though, how could their be any comparison?

[Byrthnoth]

The crafted Scythe does approximately 40% more damage than 99 Apocalypse. It does ~12-20% (Hit Rate depending) more damage than the points-buyable scythe (which itself does 25% more damage than Apoc). The crafted scythe requires Rockfin Tooth, which almost certainly drops off the new Shark boss and will likely not be cheap.

You can only have one Aftermath effect active at the same time (even if it's Relic and Mythic or Mythic and Empyrean, etc.), so aftermath combinations cannot happen. Your theoretical All-RME GA would be:
20% ODD on the first hit
OA2-3 (with Mythic AM3 and using Upheaval) or another 30% Double Damage (spamming Ukko's)
Berserk gives +14% Crit rate and +8.3% Attack, along with probably 3% DA

Those are certainly a large upgrade. They'd probably represent a further ~30% DPS. AM3 moves you from a buffed ~50% DA rate to 1.9 attacks per round with 20% first-hit ODD in both cases. That's +24% "white" DPS (2.1/1.7) and 26% TP gain, but AM3 isn't free. Berserk is gravy and I rounded up. However, the user made all three special Great Axes and the DPS increase is less substantial than moving from Apocalypse to a crafted Scythe that you can buy off the AH and competent 18-man LSs will likely be able to farm at will.

[Obsidian]

Your suggestion seems totally absurd... but a D+146/+96 delay H2H seems even more absurd.

I think the main problem they're running in to is that they didn't budget staff to deal with fixing the relationship of RMEs to the other weapons, and now they've probably got several planned tiers of content that require high damage weapons (thus making it difficult for them to just nerf the weapons they released) and no manpower left over.

Or, Matsui realizes that trying to readjust most of the Relics/Mythics so that they don't suck (Final Heaven is pro guys) would take way more work than is reasonable to expect of them. Adoulin is his way of resetting everything in an environment he has complete control over.

[vagus]

I don't think people understand the price drop of Marrow. It's because it requires 12+ people to do it. Most people don't do ADL.

[NynJa]

Or, Matsui realizes that trying to readjust most of the Relics/Mythics so that they don't suck (Final Heaven is pro guys) would take way more work than is reasonable to expect of them. Adoulin is his way of resetting everything in an environment he has complete control over.

So, after keeping RM's relevant throughout abyssea, and them RME's through voidwatch via magians...they just say "too bad,all that gil you spent and time you invested is for nothing".

Perhaps it's because I don't have any relics, and my Empyreans are all 90'd.

Once again, you really have no fucking right to discuss this topic, because like you said, YOU DONT HAVE ANY.

[arus2001]

So, after keeping RM's relevant throughout abyssea, and them RME's through voidwatch via magians...they just say "too bad,all that gil you spent and time you invested is for nothing".

As a likely child of Tanaka, I'd look at it as a step by step removal of his legacy.

But let's not pretend people got nothing out of them, even if you never made a relic but sold farmed currency instead.