Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Jem]

On one hand I agree that you are going to get morons incapable of following the gimmicks but on the other hand PUGs managed the VWNM and Abyssea proc system just fine which aren't really that dissimilar to what Delve field NM's require.

I think PUGs main problem will be doing enough damage rather than the gimmicks though. Since even fully buffed some PUG herpaderps are still god awful.

[TacoTaru]

Really don't mind these changes as long as there are some serious changes to Skirmish access. If Skirmish/Naakul weapons are what are "required" to attempt this content, then so be it, but don't make it an event for only those with super deep pockets.

[chichicha]

Beads. Lots of prep work, sure, but the option is there. Kill them inside until youre good enough to kill them outside, then collect beads to skip 1-3 inside and go directly to 4/5.

However, I'm just about finished with translation and I'm pretty sure they are only talking about keeping the boss room locked until all NM are defeated (not opening in the last 10 min). I see no reference to tier 2 NMs at all. They're also planning to make beads a 100% drop unless I've grossly misinterpreted this.

100% Drop on Bead, sounds good! Hopefully it's true!

[Kaisha]

Getting 18 people to avoid enfeebling the Wamoura at all can be, or to rotate around the Craklaw, or to spam non-harmful enfeebles on the Gnat (and then erase them all), or to keep Blind on the Peiste, and so on.

Sometimes I wonder how many WARs that spam Ukko even realize it has a Slow additional.....

[Slycer]

On one hand I agree that you are going to get morons incapable of following the gimmicks but on the other hand PUGs managed the VWNM and Abyssea proc system just fine which aren't really that dissimilar to what Delve field NM's require.

I think PUGs main problem will be doing enough damage rather than the gimmicks though. Since even fully buffed some PUG herpaderps are still god awful.

Maybe, but it's a different gimmick for each monster and it tends to be more complicated to explain than "try every club weapon skill you can use."

[Cream Soda]

Bleh, lol no shell here; looks like I'll have to get this done tonight... and the 4 pick up groups I joined yesterday were all complete and utter failures

[Obsidian]

Sometimes I wonder how many WARs that spam Ukko even realize it has a Slow additional.....

Approximately the same number of Apoc owners who forget it has additional effect: blind.

[Kincard]

I won't deny that decent pickups do happen, but I get a competent 18-man group through shouts once every 5 groups or something. Given how long it takes to get anything in this game even if all your runs go perfectly I guess I just don't have the patience to deal with crappy groups anymore.

If you guys want more 18 man content and you love it more power to you. They're going to lose a ton of players that don't have access to these resources though.

[Jem]

Approximately the same number of Apoc owners who forget it has additional effect: blind.

Semi forgivable because you have the evasion of a sloth on DRK! And Cata drain makes you not care about taking damage as much!

I won't deny that decent pickups do happen, but I get a competent 18-man group through shouts once every 5 groups or something. Given how long it takes to get anything in this game even if all your runs go perfectly I guess I just don't have the patience to deal with crappy groups anymore.

If you guys want more 18 man content and you love it more power to you. They're going to lose a ton of players that don't have access to these resources though.

Generally I'll give shouters a few chances, if their runs are consistently bad then I don't go to their PUGs anymore. There's a few people who shout for stuff who always put together competent groups because they make sure their set-up is ideal and they weed out bad players.

[NynJa]

Not strictly true. If the walls no longer fall in Delve then if you can't kill outside in under 20 mins, no way will you reach it inside with more than 20 mins remaining.

I still don't understand the fuss though like you said. People are either grossly overestimating the difficulty of these mobs or the PUG community on other servers is significantly worse than Asura. If PUGs can get 5.5-7k points in Delve (which they do here), I'm fairly sure those same PUG people can deal enough damage to the NM's in 20 minutes.

Didnt you say when you did "PUG" legion, it was you being invited in by another LS?
I think youre severely overestimating the quality of PUG players, and between limiting outside fights to 20 min (i think even some of the top LSs cant down all 15 mobs in 20 min each), and not auto dropping walls inside after X time has passed is going to fuck up the content pretty fucking hard.

I think a rage timer is sufficient. But an auto-depop after 20 min is fuckin bullshit. Like i said before, your AVERAGE ls could kill kings in about 30 min, yet the rage timer was set to 60, with a 10 minute buildup, and could be unraged if left alone for a tick of hp. In this case, your GODTIER linkshells are downing most of these (barring PD SV brd rotation zergs) in about 10-15 min.

[dasva]

Yeah the lss I've been being asked to join recently couldn't do this stuff if this is as bad as it sounds. We've wiped a lot outside even on tier 1. Even to inside wamoura. Basically I'm going to have to ditch all casual players lol

[Taruina]

I've seriously given up even trying to do NMs with my LS. We have to shout for half the alliance because most of the LS ragequit over update.

The level of stupidity with Siren's PUG's can only be shown through this:
>>>Leader: "Ok, so no one WS on the Chapuli. Ok?"
>>>COR: "...so can I use Wildfire?"

I can't even.

[NynJa]

Im pretty sure some of you are rubbing your dicks because SE has just made delve GODTIERLSONRY, but making an event that has just obsoleted every other thing the game has to offer exclusive to 1% of the playerbase is fuckin stupid.

[Obsidian]

Can't really obsolete things with gear you can't get. If anything, increasing the difficulty of Delve makes everything else more relevant (you need to get gear from it to do Delve).

[Fondue]

Has anybody tried wsing chapuli while its casting ?

[NynJa]

Because your 10 DDs going from RMES to skirmish weapons is going to make majority of the fights go from 60 min to 15 min?

[Kincard]

The rage timer has already ceased to do what it was originally meant to do. Originally rage timers were put there so that people taking to long would take a loss by default because the monster would start one-shotting everyone in range. It made some amount of sense because after the monster went idle and unraged some other group could claim the monster. It's dumb that now rage timer just means "Hold it with Ochain while people chip its HP for 3 hours". I don't even know why they put rage timers on the damn things to begin with instead of making it confrontation NM with a 20-30min timer like so many other things they do.

[Jem]

Didnt you say when you did "PUG" legion, it was you being invited in by another LS?
I think youre severely overestimating the quality of PUG players, and between limiting outside fights to 20 min (i think even some of the top LSs cant down all 15 mobs in 20 min each), and not auto dropping walls inside after X time has passed is going to fuck up the content pretty fucking hard.

Some runs were full LS affairs where they would invite me along. Some were runs that had 10-14 ish people and then shouted for the rest. Some were runs where they had 7-9 people and shouted for the rest. All were successful, obviously to varying degrees.

I'd consider that last grouping a PUG because the majority of the players were gotten from shout. Even the middle group had the potential for a lot of PUG players though.

The PUG Delve runs I've done have been someone shouting for members and I tell them I'll go. All of them have gone fine. Pretty much as PUG as you can get.

EDIT: Also the difference between 20 minutes fight and 60 minute fight is a lot less than you make out considering your damage hits a wall once an NM has full raged. Even the best geared, fully buffed DD's are going to struggle to do deal damage because you can't hit the damn things.

[Slycer]

Yeah, what Jem said. I think you could make an argument that it would be easier to drop a 60 minute fight (raged) to 15 minutes (non-rage) than to drop a 15 minute fight to 7-8 minutes or something, because of the rage effects. The damage dealt probably drops by 80% or more after rage.

[NynJa]

Without relying on 2 brd's doing a SV rotation and cor buffs and PD...basically strategies that DONT involve "mindless zerg", on average whats the mob HP at before it starts to rage?