Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Damane]

WAR has a very powerful SP combination, that's going to be some damage. Is there any other job that will get such a boost? I guess BLM can go really crazy on nuking combining their two SPs, too.

in combination not, wars combo seems outragous if both SPs stack indead

the SAM 2hour was allready nice, I wonder how much TP is returned in relation to damage absorbed.

Stackign both BLU 2hours could have potential too. I dont know how much dmg Umbridled spells do, but Azure Lore + new SP with no recast? Gates of hades spam?

[Yukari]

What are the new SPs as proposed at the moment, anyways?

[arus2001]

honestly the refill MP is actually kind of needed, i mean the 2 hour would be pointless without any MP no? (and dont compare it to chainspell of RDM, because spells cost way less MP then BP and have no summoning involved)

Will just nitpick because I hate seeing people shit on RDM. Predator Claws and Blizzard IV (RDM will likely have Ice MACC merited) both have a 164 MP cost. SMNs are also going to have natively higher MP and perhaps more max MP+ on their BP gear than RDMs might with their INT/MATK. Spells get hit by the global delay just like JAs do, too. So, odds are you'll be able to crank out the same, if not more, BPs than nukes in the same period. Plus Silence doesn't fuck you, which at least seems more common in AoE form than Amnesia. Unless the RDM wants to gamble on Converts, they'll also be spending some MP regained to cure themselves up. Now, back in the day I did believe CS should've replenished MP, too, since using it as an OHSHI- button might be too late by the time you realize it. So, much like I view the SMN JA, it's more apt to have its use planned out in advance (including Avatar out), but that free MP refill is huge. You might even be able to get away with /RDM on occasion to crank out even more BPs whereas RDM's Plan B is Vile Elixir +1.

As for RDM's new 2 hour, I just hope SE gets the stick out of their butts over potencies. At least double shit like SV does for BRDs.

[Damane]

Will just nitpick because I hate seeing people shit on RDM. Predator Claws and Blizzard IV (RDM will likely have Ice MACC merited) both have a 164 MP cost. SMNs are also going to have natively higher MP and perhaps more max MP+ on their BP gear than RDMs might with their INT/MATK. Spells get hit by the global delay just like JAs do, too. So, odds are you'll be able to crank out the same, if not more, BPs than nukes in the same period. Plus Silence doesn't fuck you, which at least seems more common in AoE form than Amnesia. Unless the RDM wants to gamble on Converts, they'll also be spending some MP regained to cure themselves up. Now, back in the day I did believe CS should've replenished MP, too, since using it as an OHSHI- button might be too late by the time you realize it. So, much like I view the SMN JA, it's more apt to have its use planned out in advance (including Avatar out), but that free MP refill is huge. You might even be able to get away with /RDM on occasion to crank out even more BPs whereas RDM's Plan B is Vile Elixir +1.

As for RDM's new 2 hour, I just hope SE gets the stick out of their butts over potencies. At least double shit like SV does for BRDs.

you seem to forget that not only the smn but the avatar itself can be paralyzed, amnesiad, silenced etc. too.
removing silence with an echo drop is by far faster then dismissing an avatar due to paralyze and resummoning it, sending it in, and proceeding with BPs. Hence I really do feal that the MP refill was indeed needed for the SMN as oposed to Chainspell.
Besides RDM has convert for that, and by refilling the MP of the SMN SP they are not bound to sub RDM to make a good use out of it (they may want to sub RDM if they want to make the BEST use out of it).
Considering that the 2 SPs stack, this ability with astral flow PD is definitly an OHshit move for the whole PT, if you combine both.

[Byrthnoth]

Actually, he is right.

[Tarage]

It's still a heck of a lot better than the usual "No you cannot has CaitSith because we're sick" shit we usually get.

[fantasticdan]

you seem to forget that not only the smn but the avatar itself can be paralyzed, amnesiad, silenced etc.

Why would you care if the avatar has any status effect besides amnesia?

[Slycer]

I'm fairly sure the new SPs were going to be adjusted with the intent of stackability where applicable. For some, the stacking is irrelevant (SCH, RNG, etc.), for most of them it's more of a convenience thing than it is game-breaking, but for some, like WAR, you get a pretty powerful synergy.

[Loziel]

They had better do something damn amazing with my new SP's for all my jobs because i'm getting fed up of watching a small fraction of jobs ride further and further into the distance with no semblance of 'balance' at all, despite the word being bandied about like nobodies business. You know the jobs i mean

[Kyte]

Now just add more worthwhile UL spells, SE. All it's good for at the minute is backtobacktoback Terrors.

This will even more heavily remind me of Evangelion upon each use.

In all seriousness though, Bloodrake (+maybe Azure Lore) will at least be sort of useful to spam, or Pyric Bulwark. Terror would be neat....if it worked on anything you would want to SP on.

[fantasticdan]

Tourbillion or GoH spam could do decent AoE damage, mp permitted.

[Damane]

Why would you care if the avatar has any status effect besides amnesia?

because petrification, paralyze, sleepga etc. can prevent an avatar from doing BPs.

[NynJa]

I dont think an avatar being parad will affect BP success, pretty sure theyre like WSs once active.

[Damane]

I dont think an avatar being parad will affect BP success, pretty sure theyre like WSs once active.

I'm no smn expert, but I am pritty sure (while playing smn for the little time I play it on ADL) that BP can not come out if your avatar is paralyzed, actually this happened to my ramuh I think.

[Kaisha]

Blood Pacts can only be bummed by out-of-range, Slept, Breaked, Terror'd, or Amnesia'd. Nothing else.

Para on yourself (not avatar) can screw you out of your BP though.

[EDIT] Forgot 'stunned', but yeah....

[Tarage]

Yep. Para only effects the auto attacks.

[NynJa]

I'm no smn expert, but I am pritty sure (while playing smn for the little time I play it on ADL) that BP can not come out if your avatar is paralyzed, actually this happened to my ramuh I think.

You were probably para'd

[Motenten]

A quick, non-exhaustive comparison of Mnk using Hundred Fists vs War using either Mighty Strikes, the new SP, or both. 95 Vere vs 95 Rag. Usual caveats about buffs, gear, etc.

Set spreadsheet target as Pil, gave both jobs Stalwart's to avoid accuracy issues. Gave war Soul Voice'd Marches; with Berserk+Stalwart's+Impetus+Hundred Fists, mnk doesn't really benefit from brd at all; gave Minuets just for the str boost. Both end up with capped attack.

Mnk was at about 600 DPS (slightly better if can open with 300 TP Smite); war using either SP ability individually was close to the same; war using both simultaneously was over 1000 DPS (also, a quick check on 95 Ukon with similar gear put it at 860 DPS).

So on a case-by-case basis, each SP is competent and roughly comparable, but the stacked version for war just seems excessive. It's such a massive improvement for war, I don't know that any other job would be remotely as desirable when going for a 2hr zerg, aside from maybe a kraken drk (haven't put together any estimate on what drk's DPS would be).

On the other hand, this could potentially balance out PD's reduced duration, though it obviously removes most other DD jobs from the equation.

[pchan]

It's one time use so it doesn't balance anything. Even without 2H war and monk have been 1st for years anyway, so all it does is show that devs don't care about other DDs.

[Gokku]

It's one time use so it doesn't balance anything. Even without 2H war and monk have been 1st for years anyway, so all it does is show that devs don't care about other DDs.

im sorry but what world do you live in were SE's love child SAM doesnt exist even now they are doing everything they can to make SAM the bestest DD!