Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Kyreth]

I'd go as far to say not even really as much as SE seems to want us to do. I mean look at all the incredibly 1 use peices they continually introduce. Clearly they want us to use it in those situations and yet it wouldn't be worth it most the time using normal maccros. It's another one of a few of SEs actions which make it seem like they want us to "cheat"

Or simply not be able to do everything at 110% effectiveness all the time. Yes, it means they build the game in spite of Windower making it "easier" to outperform people who don't 3PP.

[dasva]

Or simply not be able to do everything at 110% effectiveness all the time. Yes, it means they build the game in spite of Windower making it "easier" to outperform people who don't 3PP.

That's exactly my point though. They add gear that is awesome if you use tools but crap if you don't. It screams hey we want you to cheat. Similarly to how the old fishing change actually made it harder for legit players while making it better for botting.

[Kyreth]

That's exactly my point though. They add gear that is awesome if you use tools but crap if you don't. It screams hey we want you to cheat. Similarly to how the old fishing change actually made it harder for legit players while making it better for botting.

And at this point, you'd literally obliterate nearly all the veteran endgame types simply by tracking how fast they macro-swapped and banning for 3PP. It also makes the game artificially harder for non-Windower types, because adjustments get made based on successful (ie Windower) players completing content.

I can see -why- they did it, even though it fails in practice. Theoretically, if you had to make gear choices and compromises vs. BIS w/3PP macros, the game would get considerably more complex.

[Therin]

Here's a question - do spellcast and/or Windower script macros have the problem of lagging in highly congested areas? That's the only time that I've really noticed regular macros being a detriment; when you are in an area with 60+ people fighting something it sometimes becomes virtually impossible for the game to actually allow you to swap 10+ pieces of gear.

[dasva]

Here's a question - do spellcast and/or Windower script macros have the problem of lagging in highly congested areas? That's the only time that I've really noticed regular macros being a detriment; when you are in an area with 60+ people fighting something it sometimes becomes virtually impossible for the game to actually allow you to swap 10+ pieces of gear.

Everything lags in laggy areas. But less likely to misfire and it all happens at once instead of several macros so no delay inbetween and one less macro that can misfire.

[Malithar]

I've experienced the same. In congested areas, regardless of the types of macros you use (though I guess autoexec and spellcast might bypass this?) just getting a macro to fire can be a challenge. However, with Windower scripts, regardless of how long it is, as long as you're not having connection lag, once fired it'll complete and do as it should. With connection lag, I've had both types of macros fail in multiple ways. Not firing off, stopping midway, slight lag spike midway that causes a few pieces of gear to not change, etc. Don't think there's really a fix for that other then getting away from circa 2002 client based software lol.

Have been experiencing an issue lately though where a random piece of gear gets locked. Not sure what's causing it, but manually switching that piece seems to remedy the issue for future macros. It always returns the "can't complete that action at this time" message or whatever it is in red when it happens, just have to open the equip screen and see what piece is on that shouldn't be.

[noodles355]

They are certainly more reliable, if for no other reason that you only have to press 1-2 buttons to WS instead of 5.

You seem to be slowly convincing yourself that windower scripts and/or spellcast might be a good idea. I hope you continue along this path because quite simply at the end of the day there is absolutely no reason to press 5 macros to achieve the exact same result as pressing 2 macros apart from thinking it somehow makes you a better player (It doesn't. The people here who are saying you should switch over use spellcast or extended macros, but it's not because they can't use regular macros, it's because they don't want to.)

Edit: To the making sure macros fire in laggy areas, I'd like to repeat the suggestion I made earlier about putting /echo lines in the start of each macro so that you know they've fired.

[Kincard]

I didn't start using spellcast until a few months ago, before that I used windower scripts for a while but for the most of my playtime I only used the base macros because I occasionally played on my Xbox and I didn't want to get too reliant on spellcast or windower stuff. I'd say not getting to play on xbox and needing to wait maybe 2 or 3 days after a patch (if that) for people to fix spellcast is more than worth the rest of my playtime not being a clusterfuck of hitting 3 macros to do one action.

The default macros in the game actually have a higher chance of misfiring if you're swapping a lot of gear because if you press your second gearswap macro too soon your first one won't fire off completely (you'll miss the last one or two lines), which happens really often when you need to press like 6 macros just to WS and swap back into TP every few seconds.

[TSFFXI]

This isn't very useful, but it's amusing for me. Before switching to a PC I had to hit three macros to weapon skill (+2 to swap back to tp gear), three to cast utsesumi, four to cast elemental magic as BLM or RDM, and seven to trigger healing breath and swap through potency gear and back to melee equipment as DRG. I never truly mastered playing SCH, either-- I couldn't find a way to efficiently handle all of the stratagems.

[Taint]

They are certainly more reliable, if for no other reason that you only have to press 1-2 buttons to WS instead of 5.

You seem to be slowly convincing yourself that windower scripts and/or spellcast might be a good idea. I hope you continue along this path because quite simply at the end of the day there is absolutely no reason to press 5 macros to achieve the exact same result as pressing 2 macros apart from thinking it somehow makes you a better player (It doesn't. The people here who are saying you should switch over use spellcast or extended macros, but it's not because they can't use regular macros, it's because they don't want to.)

Edit: To the making sure macros fire in laggy areas, I'd like to repeat the suggestion I made earlier about putting /echo lines in the start of each macro so that you know they've fired.

The issue is he plays DRK. There is almost 0 chance of effectively playing that job with 20 macros even with scripts.

If he was a MNK main it would be doable but dealing with DRK casting, TP, capped haste TP, Hybrid,capped haste hybrid, AM, capped haste AM, hybrid AM, PDT, MDT, Cata, Entropy. Some of that can be done with macro group swaps but going between more then 3 macro groups gets very cumbersome.

Doesn't even seem doable for some participating in a high end LS.

[Rocl]

Oh you'll get cumber, son.

[Jem]

Well just as an example, my DRK spellcast is 2831 lines I believe. Apoc covers half of that (discounting stuff which applies to all weapons).

There's no way you can come anywhere close to replicating that with in-game macros. I noticed a substantial performance increase just going from windower macros to spellcast, nevermind from in-game macros.

[Fake]

People are being polite:

Not using spellcast but using windower macros is for lazy people who think you need to code or have convinced themselves it isn't a significant/any increase for certain jobs (this is obviously incorrect). The misconception commonly shared by the ill informed/lazy/stupid people is that spellcast benefits mage jobs more than it does melees.

Not even using windower macros (whilst using windower) is just mind numbingly stupid, no matter how well you use your 5 macros to perform a weaponskill you are still a million miles off what you could be achieving without the SE macro delay and the command line limit.

Obviously off topic but people who claim they can 2 box a melee + mage and aren't using spellcast, even with the default loaded, make me want to fucking scream. You can't do it to a standard that makes it worth it.

[Dotsudoku]

Calling them lazy and stupid is certainly the way to get them to change their mind

[Hitou]

It's Fake, what do you expect?

[Karbuncle]

People doing things the more over-complicated way = Lazier than people using the easy method?

Okay, Windower Scripts are a clear and concise winner in efficiency, but i don't think "Lazy" Describes the term, even if its forced extra effort using non-windower scripts lol.

[noodles355]

It's Fake, what do you expect?

Pretty much.


Just try to phase out his irrational anger towards pretty much everything like the rest of us.

[Draylo]

Everytime I read that guys posts I imagine this angry fat guy that makes those YouTube videos raging about various games.

[grevenilvec75]

Yeah let's all suck his dick, that'll show him how wrong he is.

[Therin]

Everytime I read that guys posts I imagine this angry fat guy that makes those YouTube videos raging about various games.

What the hell Draylo, get on the game, we're doing Delve! >