Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[dasva]

How the fuck do you define hard if it's not it requiring any of those things?

So hard that no matter what it's up to chance and you just have to grind away at it for every til you get lucky?

[Kincard]

How the fuck do you define hard if it's not it requiring any of those things?

I've asked myself this question multiple times in the past when a discussion like this comes up. It feels like word hard has lost all meaning in context of this game.

I think a few of you are seeing it from the perspective of someone that fishbots and/or has capped gil from blinkering. Obviously if all you had to do at the computer is browse a bunch of bazaars and buy out coins you would think the process is easy.

[fantasticdan]

My point was simply that (pre-SoA) you can make a top tier weapon without actually doing any current level content. If upgrading relics to be as/more powerful than delve megaboss weapons required nothing more than holding on to your 99 relic, or grinding out some plasma, it will be really silly.

That's why non scrubs will get megaboss weapons. Everyone just has the new 85s (base delve), upgraded to 90s, the true gamers will get the 99's (megaboss).

I'm not mad one bit that everyone has delves, since I know i can get the megas.

Won't the megaboss weapons be completely outclassed by the upgraded mythics/relevant relics? I mean could this really compete with a modernized gkt mythic in-line with what we saw?

[jPuff]

I'm kind of over people saying shit is easy in the context of this game. It means exactly nothing with how it gets thrown around. MMO players have the most fucking warped perception of time/reward/ease of almost any people I've seen.

[Dotsudoku]

I think people dramatically over-complicate not easy vs easy-- probably because almost everything that ever has or ever will be in this game falls under the latter.

1) Can most players tackle it? It's easy

2) Can most players not tackle it? It's not easy


Simple as can be. There's no reason to break it down into grinds, gil, or what have you. If everyone can complete it, it's easy. This distinction would be a lot more obvious if it weren't for the fact that at any given time there's usually <1 thing that falls under 'not easy'(which at the moment is literally only fracture bosses)

[Kincard]

My point was simply that (pre-SoA) you can make a top tier weapon without actually doing any current level content. If upgrading relics to be as/more powerful than delve megaboss weapons required nothing more than holding on to your 99 relic, or grinding out some plasma, it will be really silly.

I'm just having a hard time understanding why people think that they need to add even more ridiculous trials or work onto a weapon that would typically take someone actually playing the game normally 3 months+ to obtain compared to a Delve weapon that can be obtained in one afternoon of plasm farming. It's also hard to compare those apples to Fracture Naakual's oranges since then it's a question of "can you assemble 18 people with good gear for one good run" vs "are you willing to grind for 2 hours every day for 3 months" (or nearly a year I guess, if you're talking about a mythic).

I mean it also comes down to what weapon we're talking about. Kogarasumaru and Ryunohige are ridiculously powerful weapons and if they scale them the way the swords were they likely win, no question. But Redemption is still going to be shit. We'll have to see if they'll take this opportunity to actually adjust the weapons for once in the game's history instead of going "let's just put +20 attack onto all of them".

[arus2001]

I think people dramatically over-complicate not easy vs easy-- probably because almost everything that ever has or ever will be in this game falls under the latter.

1) Can most players tackle it? It's easy

2) Can most players not tackle it? It's not easy


Simple as can be. There's no reason to break it down into grinds, gil, or what have you. If everyone can complete it, it's easy. This distinction would be a lot more obvious if it weren't for the fact that at any given time there's usually <1 thing that falls under 'not easy'(which at the moment is literally only fracture bosses)

You can't cite completion as the factor and then eliminate criteria that correlates to that.

MMO players have the most fucking warped perception of time/reward/ease of almost any people I've seen.

Which is largely why I say that. Don't play as much as some basement dweller? "Welcome to gimpsville you no-skill leech. GTFO my party, RME ONRY." Time is everything, both in how much you can contribute to a game and any limitations imposed by the dev. Having the means to multi-box also opens up a number of doors compared to those who can't, which is too frequently overlooked in XI and why an individual may not have something or number of somethings. I also try to be a bit pragmatic about how "fun" a given task is. If you're someone who can only play 3 hours a day 3 days a week, spending 2 of that each day in Dynamis slaughtering EPs over 9 months is not what I'd consider a fun and inviting experience. It simply isn't hard. It's just tedious, boring, and bluntly, fucking poor game design. So it shouldn't be terribly surprising why I advocate adjusting old requirements as long as this shit is going to be a future requirement in one iteration or another.

Playing on actual difficulty will also vary per game. XI perhaps has the disadvantage of age, and with that, engine limitations. "Don't stand in the fire!" mechanics are both rare and not terribly obvious if you consider things like mob auras. SE's also had their boner of one-shot AoEs or hate resets that are more cheap than tests of situational awareness. So, while it's easy to say challenge should be something like, "Collect gear of X tier so you can finally beat the last boss of X tier with tangible mechanics!" you then invite the question of whether or not that kill needs to be flawless or if there's wiggle room for a mistake or two, if for any reason, lag.

Otherwise, I may as well ask why you're not a RL billionaire. You breathe, right? That means you should be able. Simply logging into a game doesn't mean all its content falls into your lap, which is the general implication of disregarding other factors like play time, cash generation, access to friends/linkshells, or even landing a passable PUG.

[Dotsudoku]

Limited playtime hasn't been a serious roadblock for a long time. If you have time limits and you're terrible, it's because you have no idea how to prioritize and/or manage your time. Getting an Empyrean to 90 is incredibly easy to do in relatively small increments of time and made you more than passable for virtually all content up until recently. 95 Relic was similar story, it just took a bit more focus.

Won't even get into the bullshit about finances, friends, or linkshells.

[Jem]

People overestimate how hard gil is to make and how hard shit is to get done. They did at 75 and they still do now. The hardest part about XI has always been finding other competent people or at least enough competent people to cover the important slots. The beauty of that though is that if you're a good player yourself then others will generally seek you out.

[Yugl]

Yes, nothing in this game ever was/is/ever will be hard. It just require[s/d] the right amount of time/thought/preparation/people/coordination/weight lifting/brofisting/trips to the mall/drinks.

Are people ever going to stop arguing the point of difficulty as though it's relevant?

Finally, someone picks up on the greater issue with this conversation.

[Obsidian]

I've asked myself this question multiple times in the past when a discussion like this comes up. It feels like word hard has lost all meaning in context of this game.

I think a few of you are seeing it from the perspective of someone that fishbots and/or has capped gil from blinkering. Obviously if all you had to do at the computer is browse a bunch of bazaars and buy stuff you would think the process is easy.

This is effectively all that is required for anything not related to Adoulin.

[Jurist]

I was really happy with r/e/m being outdated, keeping them up to date w/o any work will just kill everyone motivation as I see a lot of people "I'm not doing anything atm they will make my wpn best again soon".

This is a strawman which fails if we look at NNI as an example. People with 99 R/M/E didn't stop playing and ignore NNI when it came out because they already had the best weapons. Similarly, if 99 R/M/E is made relevant again (remember this content really isn't that old, at least the 99 level), people aren't going to un-sub because they have nothing left to do. They are going to get delve weapons, upgrade them, and definitely work on Mik, Mani, etc. gear upgrading that. Delve weapons are not the only part of SoA worth doing, they are just a priority because there was a colossal failure of development progression from sea level (99 R/M/E) pre SoA, to Mt. Everest level (Delve weapons) in about 3 weeks worth of RL time.

[Slycer]

Btw, Fujito made a typically bizarro post about going to the eye doctor and the 11th anniversary of FFXI, but he did drop in a teaser at the end that we should be getting some more details about Mog Gardens tomorrow.

[Toth]

Is that what that was about? Lol. He did show off some FFXI booze, didn't he?

[Ligray]

Mog Gardens post is up on JP side, new NA Contest with a cool yovra replica, minor Matsui follow-ups to his reives adjustment post. Looks like info on Monstrosity will be given next week from the looks of JP side's Dev summary of the week.

[Wardeniii]

This is a strawman which fails if we look at NNI as an example....

If I had $1.00 for every time someone on any FFXI-related conversation engine referenced a "straw-man fallacy" before making their argument, I could pay off the rest of my student loans.

[orinthia]

NA Contest

*Tarutaru not included.

Bah!

[Jurist]

If I had $1.00 for every time someone on any FFXI-related conversation engine referenced a "straw-man fallacy" before making their argument, I could pay off the rest of my student loans.

You'd be richer if you had a $1.00 everytime made a strawman.

[Toth]

Good info Slycer but I am worried about the 'early summer for the next patch' comment. That could mean it won't arrive until July. I had it pegged for the June 24th....

[dasva]

Omfg I want the yrova statue!!!