Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[dasva]

It's not that other jobs aren't useful so much as people often wont even consider the benefits one offers even when those benefits are the exact same but stronger then other jobs which are taken lol. But that is opening up some I mean at first it was just throw rngs at it and only relic ones at that

[ronin sparthos]

Jobs like PUP NIN BLU THF BST DNC shine in situations where you're running a 3-6man party through something which is what Skirmish II is supposed to cover. If Colonization manages to not be complete shit in these new zones then those are also places said jobs would excel over the favored DD (WAR SAM RNG DRK) for large-scale events.

[Obsidian]

Where is my Black Belt +1 goddammit.

[Draginhikari]

It's kind of true, you will never get a large number of jobs into an event like Delve most of the time because the level of DDing and super buffing are too importent there, but at least having some lower key variations for smallers groups will allow more hybrid jobs to operate pretty effectively even better then the heavy DD in certain situations, variety never hurts and will allow people to gear towards that point where they might be able to do Delve bosses.

[Tarage]

Where is my Black Belt +1 goddammit.

Sitting with my Evoker's Ring +1.

[Wardeniii]

for example, the oaxiturs are awesome for MNK. As a PUP only job though, this weapon does nothing substantial for me since you only need it to kill the mega bosses and PUP is not in people's strategy ATM for delve bosses. The huge damage boost is nice but it doesn't help my automaton as much as rigors do. I am hoping for some kind of happy medium when it comes to the next set of weapons.

Oatixurs are the best thing to happen to PUP since Kenkonken.

[Chamaan]

Well, as it is going now, only a few jobs like MNK and SAMs are useful for end game delve. Tier 4s and 5s can be defeated by any solid DDs. PUP is going through what all the other jobs are going through ATM. People just underestimate the power of the automaton.

The only thing really holding Pup back right now is automaton attack delay. An alternator equivalent that halved melee and ranged delay, and maybe added some double attack/shot, would make pup competitive with pretty much anything in the game. Add in some better pet enhancement gear and we're talking real turkey here.

[Odin'sLaw]

The only thing really holding Pup back right now is automaton attack delay. An alternator equivalent that halved melee and ranged delay, and maybe added some double attack/shot, would make pup competitive with pretty much anything in the game. Add in some better pet enhancement gear and we're talking real turkey here.

i believe Automaton's can already cap haste and triple attack so it's already pretty fast its just snapshot that's a bit iffy on automatons atm

[pancakesandsex]

i believe Automaton's can already cap haste and triple attack so it's already pretty fast its just snapshot that's a bit iffy on automatons atm

They can get double attack via the coiler, but not any triple attack that I know of.

[Toth]

Jobs like PUP NIN BLU THF BST DNC shine in situations where you're running a 3-6man party through something which is what Skirmish II is supposed to cover. If Colonization manages to not be complete shit in these new zones then those are also places said jobs would excel over the favored DD (WAR SAM RNG DRK) for large-scale events.

That's true. That's my hope.

And warden, I would argue more that alternator was the best thing for PUP since KK but for pure DD, oatixurs is tops, no denying and I am still hopeful for one n the future. Ultimately though, MNks get far more use out of them than PUPs because of how work so well with MNK abilities.

I do wonder how a rigors PUP and an alternator sharpshooter automaton would do against a MNk with the same gear and against a MNk with oatixurs. THe MNk would of course own the master DD damage no matter what but what about the automaton damage added in? Let's test this warden!!!!!

[CoreyX]

Well the fact that delve mega boss weapons were meant to symbolize the pinnacle of item levels at the moment, I am wondering how they will entice people to buy or try for new weapons if they are just plain outclassed. Only a handful of shells kill these mega bosses and if those weapons are the only options, then this will force people to join bigger shells rather than current shells with friends that may not be strong enough to kill these guys.

I hope skirmish 2.0 gives weapons of slightly less DMG but more variety. for example, the oaxiturs are awesome for MNK. As a PUP only job though, this weapon does nothing substantial for me since you only need it to kill the mega bosses and PUP is not in people's strategy ATM for delve bosses. The huge damage boost is nice but it doesn't help my automaton as much as rigors do. I am hoping for some kind of happy medium when it comes to the next set of weapons.

Well with the Alternator you'd be hard-pressed to find anything you could possibly need Pet: ACC/MACC/RACC on anything unless you're somehow invited to Delve megabosses (and even then no one knows how their accuracy fairs on them with capped skill, yet) so Rigors are effectively doing nothing for the automaton, and thus Oaxitur is a huge upgrade with no loss

[Toth]

Well with the Alternator you'd be hard-pressed to find anything you could possibly need Pet: ACC/MACC/RACC on anything unless you're somehow invited to Delve megabosses (and even then no one knows how their accuracy fairs on them with capped skill, yet) so Rigors are effectively doing nothing for the automaton, and thus Oaxitur is a huge upgrade with no loss

Yeah but I don't see anyone inviting PUPs to delve mega bosses unless the groups have such a good strategy that they want to try something new. I'm game to try my best if anyone is interested lol

[CoreyX]

Well my point was that the stats on rigor aren't helping the automaton at all if you're using the alternator, so oaxiturs are the best in every way and you don't lose anything. But yeah, it wouldn't kill them for the next H2H with 150 damage or whatever to have relevant and useful puppet stats (Burratanois 2.0? Yes please!)

[Damane]

Jobs like PUP NIN BLU THF BST DNC shine in situations where you're running a 3-6man party through something which is what Skirmish II is supposed to cover. If Colonization manages to not be complete shit in these new zones then those are also places said jobs would excel over the favored DD (WAR SAM RNG DRK) for large-scale events.

Considering if BLU gets another offhand sword that is crafted and the tojil sword. wouldnt a BLU/WAR set up only wiht offensiv traits sit atop too if they had access to CDC via WoE99 qeapons quest? Dunno BLU/WAR with TA STP DWIII etc setup looks very great on paper if properly geared, expecially after the 1 hander update no?

[Chamaan]

i believe Automaton's can already cap haste and triple attack so it's already pretty fast its just snapshot that's a bit iffy on automatons atm

Can cap gear haste with 10% on armor and 1 wind Turbo Charger. Can gain another 25% JA haste from using Overdrive, but that's only for one minute out of every hour.

Puppets don't get any form of magical haste (the Soulsoother and Stormwaker won't cast it on themselves), so at most puppets can hit 50% haste for one minute, but are only capping gear haste 99% of the time.

[dasva]

Considering if BLU gets another offhand sword that is crafted and the tojil sword. wouldnt a BLU/WAR set up only wiht offensiv traits sit atop too if they had access to CDC via WoE99 qeapons quest? Dunno BLU/WAR with TA STP DWIII etc setup looks very great on paper if properly geared, expecially after the 1 hander update no?

Blu is a pretty strong DD just from melee and traits while still being able to add a small amount of utility but people will usually just dismiss it along with basically any job using 1hand weapons so it's often hard to see how well it will do off paper. Also the whole the 2hd job will do better with similar lvl of gearing and buffs will often it stop people from bringing it even when they are chosing between a horribly equipped/played 2hder vs a top tier 1hder

[Dotsudoku]

Yeah but I don't see anyone inviting PUPs to delve mega bosses unless the groups have such a good strategy that they want to try something new. I'm game to try my best if anyone is interested lol

So long as they're woefully behind DRK and offer none of the benefits of MNK, it's never going to happen

[Toth]

The key is the automaton and how it performs.

[Jem]

And the answer is nowhere near something like a Senbaak DRK or Tsuru SAM like Dotsu said. PUP is not pulling 900-1K+ DPS which is what myself and Ccl were managing at times last night. (EDIT: And I mean physically doing that, not just on paper which is always higher)

I don't dislike jobs like PUP but that's the sad truth. And as long as it remains that way, they won't get a look in for serious content.

[Chamaan]

Which is really my point about the attack delay. Alternator really closed the gap in raw damage potential for automatons, and they could in the future add more pet enhancement gear with ridiculous +40 pet Acc/Attk bonuses on it to further lessen the loss of bard/cor buffs (no cor is going to give you pet rolls but at least the auto can benefit from geo debuffs). But as long as the auto is stuck with that attack delay their overall damage potential is way lacking in a high buff situations where melees are capping from soul voice marches and hasso.