Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[NynJa]

Yeah, I'd assume so. For this "item level" and "content level" thing to hold any water, assuming they are being boosted to the item level of Delve boss weapons, the weapons will have to go through a trial of difficulty equal to clearing Delve bosses. Otherwise the whole thing is nonsense.

Why do RME's need more trials exactly for it to not be classified as "nonsense"?

[Kyte]

Because of the of the whole "progression of content/item level" thing. If you could skip to the max level by doing lower level/old content, it would somewhat invalidate that mode of thinking.

[Morari]

Why do RME's need more trials exactly for it to not be classified as "nonsense"?

Because since the start of Adoulin, the dev team has been making a huge deal about making us go through a system of tiered content providing equally tiered gear. It's the mechanic that they want us to become accustomed to and deal with. In order to thrive in this world of Adoulin, players need to "gradually" progress from Reive gear to Skirmish gear to Delve gear. (It was a mistake in judgment that SE released the top content so soon admittedly.)

SE also said they wanted the time when REMs were the top weapons to come to an end, and it's fully possible they never had any intention of looking at them ever again if we as a playerbase didn't whine like toddlers.

Why would they backpedal on their two strongest statements and just give REMs a free pass? That would look like they weren't serious with implementing their vision for this content. The idea behind Adoulin is that we're constantly on the move improving ourselves as we constant spread out and improve and civilize the wilderness. A pioneer can't sit on his laurels just because he built his house or got his garden planted. He has to work every day to prove he can survive and flourish when the forces of nature want to reclaim all his hard work. Just because you have an REM at 99 doesn't mean anything except you're diligent (or possibly just charismatic or have a lot of loyal friends); head into the heart of Ulbuka and it'll still chew you up and spit you out. And as players, if we weren't talking about REMs, could we really justify the attitude that just because you worked really hard for something, you shouldn't have to continue to work hard just because you got it.

So it makes sense that SE will have REMs progress similarly through a set of tiers. And to compare with the Magian upgrades it took 5 trials to get from 75 to 99. I would expect maybe 3 or 4 (possibly 5 though if SE uses the same pattern of 5 levels a "tier"), which would fit with the content we already have. For example: Earn X bayld to raise to from ilevel 99 to 105, Beat 3 Wildskeeper reives to raise to 110, Earn X Plasm for 115, Beat the delve Mega Bosses for 120.

(Weren't people complaining that Abyssea "ruined" the game because it just "gave" everything to people? Why would this be any different if suddenly SE just gave everyone with a 99 REM a brand new 120 REM?)

[ronin sparthos]

Annihilator 99+2 trial: Obtain 100 Gabbarath Horns

sup.

[Damane]

Annihilator 99+2 trial: Obtain 100 Gabbarath Horns

sup.

Obtain 1 million bayld per relic you want to upgrade to 99! (tought not hard to do, but just numb as shit, which would fit perfectly with all of their previous trials!)

[Yimoa]

Annihilator 99+2 trial: Trade 100 Senbaak Nagans.

sup.

Seems more their style.

[NynJa]

I'm sorry, but how is REM getting any kind of a free pass, when for the past 10 years, REM's were to be "the strongest" weapons in the game.

I'm aware content wise things have changed, but if you're seriously overlooking the investment involved in getting those weapons to 99, then you're on drugs. EVERYTHING in this game has always been attributed to a gil/hr equivalent, and this will be no different. I've read in the Delve thread that people are mercing spots for the 3 delve boss fights. I'm not entirely sure what the cost is, perhaps someone whos touched upon that can enlighten me, but I'm pretty sure its cheaper than:
Relic- 80 mil gil (16000 currency x 6000 gil per) + 1 1/2 hours doing WS usage trial (1 WS per 30 sec about) + 20 hours on killshot trials (1200 killshots, 1 per min about, accounts for failed WS's and what not), 1-3 days in dynamis bcd for paper NM trial, 1 day in dynamis xarc for animated NM trial, 55m on Marrows (11m per, carby prices)
Emp-Easy breezey till 90: couple days camping shitty NM's and farming 80-85-90 items, but then you hit a roadblock because VW is pretty much dead now. I know people talk about "JUST TOSS GIL AT IT ITS SO EASY TO MAKE", except gil has no purpose when theres no product to buy. There are a total of 44 HMP's in bazaar's on Carby right now. You could server transfer to say Fenrir where one dude has 800 or so at 150k (when average price seems to be about 90-100k, sure), but at that point, you're not just tossing gil, you're actually tossing actual money at it. But, regardless of that, you're still looking at needing 150m in plates, and an additional 120m (cinder) or 24m (dross)
Mythic- 270 mil gil (30k alex at 9k per), 0-40 days (yes, I said 40) camping ToAU beastmen kings...

I gotta go to work, someone finish t abulating the time investment of mythic requirements, as well as how much it "costs" to get merced a delve naakual KI.

Cost of buying said weapon: 170k plasm (since you'd be getting 30k minimum from the boss), at a LOW LOW average of 5k per hour, would take 34 hours, or you could OM NOM NOM shards off AH at 60k per IV/V shard (1134 shards needed), and that would cost about 68 mil. From there, just add on the cost of the KI.

[Gwynplaine]

You've nicely summarized all the reasons the grind of the Tanaka/Everquest era grind mentality should come to an end and why we'd all be better off.

[Byrthnoth]

It takes about three hours to get a delve boss weapon at the moment. A free upgrade for RMEs would be perfectly fine.

[Fwahm]

Three hours for someone who can kill 5 NM + boss. There's a lot more people with R/E/M 99s that can't kill the bosses at all, who will be getting a free shiny new weapon.

[Kaisha]

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/cam...h/login01.html

Login-event info. Too lazy to make a new thread due to the formatting work involved, so someone else will have to. Basically, if you log in all 21 days, you get 4300 points to play with. Mules get their own point count, so.....free Kirin/AV pops for everyone.

As for me, wasting 4k points to get a +1 choco hat because I'm a sucker for event gear. Will let my mule grab shit to dbox over.

[Damane]

Three hours for someone who can kill 5 NM + boss. There's a lot more people with R/E/M 99s that can't kill the bosses at all, who will be getting a free shiny new weapon.

alot of Es are stuck at 90 and alot of R are stuck at 95 and Ms 99 arent as common as the other 2. So a free upgrade for the 99 version would make sense. People willing to have them would still need to 99 them, which is easier for the Rs then the Es. Ms really have allready a bone to pick before they get to 75.

[Kyte]

What they should do is divide up the upgrades- the first one should be a pretty simple task that makes them worth using over a plasm weapon.

[ccl]

They said they want to release them before adding new tier content, current delve boss wpn already turn boss into easy stuff, since boss wpn are so commun, they will prolly just give r/e/m buffed away to people that quit over it come back

[Kincard]

I personally would take a free upgrade to REM99s over a ridiculous Adoulin content upgrade even if it results in REMs not being as strong as they could've been, because I think it's dumb to add even more timesink into something that takes a typical players 3 months+ to obtain when the same casual players can get a Delve weapon in maybe a week. Even if they were on par with Delve weapons, it wouldn't really invalidate Delve weapons because it makes it so that any players comparing the two side-by-side would see one weapon that takes many times longer to obtain that offers no significant bonus aside from looking cool.

[Yubar]

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/cam...h/login01.html

Login-event info. Too lazy to make a new thread due to the formatting work involved, so someone else will have to. Basically, if you log in all 21 days, you get 4300 points to play with. Mules get their own point count, so.....free Kirin/AV pops for everyone.

As for me, wasting 4k points to get a +1 choco hat because I'm a sucker for event gear. Will let my mule grab shit to dbox over.

When it says login does that mean I have to completely shut down or can I just log out and log back in?

[Byrthnoth]

Three hours for someone who can kill 5 NM + boss. There's a lot more people with R/E/M 99s that can't kill the bosses at all, who will be getting a free shiny new weapon.

Yeah, but if killing the bosses was tied to getting a shiny RME then I'm sure they'd level and skill up GEO. GEO is the easiest job in the game to play at the moment and requires a few hours of AFKing and a few hours of botting to be Boss-run-level competent.

[Kaisha]

When it says login does that mean I have to completely shut down or can I just log out and log back in?

Doesn't strictly say, but I assume it's just going back to the character select screen, since it'd be silly to have to log right out POL, just to get points for the other characters on the account, since you have to log them in also.

Will be easy to check once the event moogles are up.

[Yugl]

Negative Arguments against a free ride:
1. Best Weapon Argument
Not true against a number of opponents: Kraken Club (Meaning relic weapons were situationally better)
Not true for mages, but no one is bitching about SE lacking plans to improve Magian Staves
Certain phases were questionable: LV80 weapons

2. Difficult to obtain argument
By this logic, SE should rework REM such that Mythics are better than Empyreans and Empyreans are better than Relics (This includes between weapons as well; ex: Mythic Scythe should beat Ragnarok)
Some Mega's weapons are more difficult to obtain than REM for shitty players (A slew of idiots can fuck up runs, but at least maintain steady progress with Dynamis)
Some weapons are more difficult to obtain than REM due to supply limitations
Some weapons are more difficult to obtain than REM due to artificial limitations (Wait periods coupled)
Some weapons are more difficult to obtain due to random generator ridiculousness
When SE nerfed Dynamis, people didn't bitch to this extent (In fact, they argued that easier and subsequent acquisitions was an improvement; sound familiar?)
When SE added trials to improve REM, people hardly bitched

3. Complaints compare REM acquisition Mega's weapons when there's no reason to believe they're the prime weapons of Adoulin

4. No one is bitching about Magian Staves even though SE seemingly intends to replace them (Magians were the best, maintained superiority over multiple updates, were the best weapon, and difficult to obtain)

Positive Arguments for subsequent trials:
1. Asymmetric difficulty: Weapons were easier to obtain when Dynamis, VW, Abyssea, and Salvage were prime content and will continue to become difficult as subsequent content demphasizes gil + phases out weapons
2. Progressive content: Free upgrades places the emphasis on outdated content when SE displays no intent to make them relevant once again

[Reposado]

The only kicker for me at this time is that people are now only inviting melee DD with delve weapons for content that was released before Delve weapons existed. Kind of an arse-backwards environment nowadays. Delve killed any worth of old content and is making it harder for newer people to complete the 'tier' system. They need to really re-evaluate low man scenarios for newer content and push that to their top priority or they won't have much more of a 'newer' playerbase to keep going much longer imo.