Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Malithar]

They need to really re-evaluate low man scenarios for newer content and push that to their top priority or they won't have much more of a 'newer' playerbase to keep going much longer imo.

Pretty sure Skirmish II is this 110%. Get base weapon from Skirmish I (easy, though maybe takes a few runs) run Skirmish II to get KI to upgrade weapon to +1, and get upgrade mats to augment it. Considering that Skirmish II content lvl (thus item lvl) is 1 below T4-5 Delve NMs, I'd have to wager these weapons will at least be competitive, if not possibly better for some jobs (Smn and Blm Skirmish staffs are already close, prior to Skirmish II upgrades) as well as adding a good weapon for dual wielders to build towards.

[Fawkes]

[Tarage]

The three lower ranks have always been retarded. I'm more curious what the fuck Moist Rolanberry and Ravaged Moko Grass are for.

Also if people feel like it, they can make 4 mil per character.

[Cairthenn]

Someone send that to the devs, fucking lol.

[Damane]

Negative Arguments against a free ride:
1. Best Weapon Argument
Not true against a number of opponents: Kraken Club (Meaning relic weapons were situationally better)
Not true for mages, but no one is bitching about SE lacking plans to improve Magian Staves
Certain phases were questionable: LV80 weapons

2. Difficult to obtain argument
By this logic, SE should rework REM such that Mythics are better than Empyreans and Empyreans are better than Relics (This includes between weapons as well; ex: Mythic Scythe should beat Ragnarok)
Some Mega's weapons are more difficult to obtain than REM for shitty players (A slew of idiots can fuck up runs, but at least maintain steady progress with Dynamis)
Some weapons are more difficult to obtain than REM due to supply limitations
Some weapons are more difficult to obtain than REM due to artificial limitations (Wait periods coupled)
Some weapons are more difficult to obtain due to random generator ridiculousness
When SE nerfed Dynamis, people didn't bitch to this extent (In fact, they argued that easier and subsequent acquisitions was an improvement; sound familiar?)
When SE added trials to improve REM, people hardly bitched

3. Complaints compare REM acquisition Mega's weapons when there's no reason to believe they're the prime weapons of Adoulin

4. No one is bitching about Magian Staves even though SE seemingly intends to replace them (Magians were the best, maintained superiority over multiple updates, were the best weapon, and difficult to obtain)

Positive Arguments for subsequent trials:
1. Asymmetric difficulty: Weapons were easier to obtain when Dynamis, VW, Abyssea, and Salvage were prime content and will continue to become difficult as subsequent content demphasizes gil + phases out weapons
2. Progressive content: Free upgrades places the emphasis on outdated content when SE displays no intent to make them relevant once again

actually people did bitch at the initial R and M trials because they were retarded and people also bitched about alot of empys outclassing them when 85 came around, not to mention the bitching of relic holders when dynamis got revamped. the differenc back and now is the amount. you had only a handfull of people bitching since there werent so many R M users around like compared to REM users now. hell people with no REM at 99 bitch now just because of the sake of bitching that old content us dead (thank god)

I still think 99 weapons should get a free upgrade.

[Jem]

It takes about three hours to get a delve boss weapon at the moment. A free upgrade for RMEs would be perfectly fine.

Flipside of this is that if it only takes 3 hours to get a Delve Boss weapon then it will only take you 3 hours to upgrade your 99 R/E/M if you set it to require all 3 Delve Boss kills.

Ok for people who don't already have their R/E/M at 99 it's more than 3 hours. But if they don't already have a 99 R/E/M they have no grounds to complain in the first place.

[fantasticdan]

Pretty sure Skirmish II is this 110%. Get base weapon from Skirmish I (easy, though maybe takes a few runs) run Skirmish II to get KI to upgrade weapon to +1, and get upgrade mats to augment it. Considering that Skirmish II content lvl (thus item lvl) is 1 below T4-5 Delve NMs, I'd have to wager these weapons will at least be competitive, if not possibly better for some jobs (Smn and Blm Skirmish staffs are already close, prior to Skirmish II upgrades) as well as adding a good weapon for dual wielders to build towards.

Skirmish 1 is exceedingly boring content. If skirmish 2 is more of the same I don't think it's going to keep many players around.

[Toth]

I see a ton of Mastui posts today.

[Karbuncle]

Skirmish 1 is exceedingly boring content. If skirmish 2 is more of the same I don't think it's going to keep many players around.

Oh? I really quite enjoyed Skirmish. I mean, its a fast, Lowman friendly event... The rewards just suck, Only ones that come close to being useful are the Mage ones (SMN specifically, but thats outclassed once you have a Rank~5+ Yaskomo Pole, moreso do to the macc on yask).

Only problem was it has too much running.

[Yugl]

actually people did bitch at the initial R and M trials because they were retarded and people also bitched about alot of empys outclassing them when 85 came around, not to mention the bitching of relic holders when dynamis got revamped. the differenc back and now is the amount. you had only a handfull of people bitching since there werent so many R M users around like compared to REM users now. hell people with no REM at 99 bitch now just because of the sake of bitching that old content us dead (thank god)

I still think 99 weapons should get a free upgrade.

That's the point though? If you weren't bitching then, you're only bitching now because you have to work for new weapons. This other crap about difficulty, weapon supremacy, etc are just facades to mask the real reason people want a free ride.

I see a ton of Mastui posts today.

Content philosophy
Why they simply didn't break the LV99 cap
Item LV July update, but enemy check adjustments will be the update after

[ronin sparthos]

Oh? I really quite enjoyed Skirmish. I mean, its a fast, Lowman friendly event... The rewards just suck, Only ones that come close to being useful are the Mage ones (SMN specifically, but thats outclassed once you have a Rank~5+ Yaskomo Pole, moreso do to the macc on yask).

Only problem was it has too much running.

I also liked Skirmish but it had little to no depth to it. You zone in, kill mobs that are weak as balls, occasionally have a semi-exciting trap of 4-5 Umbrils pop from a single pull and... that's that.

4-5 IT mobs spawning at once was as exciting as Skirmish gets.

[dasva]

That's the point though? If you weren't bitching then, you're only bitching now because you have to work for new weapons. This other crap about difficulty, weapon supremacy, etc are just facades to mask the real reason people want a free ride.

Just because you don't bitch when it doesn't effect you (or you didn't know) doesn't mean those aren't the reasons you are bitching when it does. People rarely care too much about things that don't effect them but that doesn't make every reason they give about something once it does effect them any less valid. I only have so many fucks I can give! There is also the little matter of the degree of the change. Of course people are going to be less pissed about at emp being a little bit better than the relic they had that still took a nice chunk of time and effort when it came out than being horribly outclassed by something that can be gotten in a day of shouts.

[Malithar]

Skirmish 1 is exceedingly boring content. If skirmish 2 is more of the same I don't think it's going to keep many players around.

Oh? I really quite enjoyed Skirmish. I mean, its a fast, Lowman friendly event... The rewards just suck

^

In MMOs, how much people enjoy endgame content is almost directly related to how useful the contents items and gear are. Back in the day, I hated kings with a passion, wake up at 3 AM to camp a window against other LSs for a chance at what we want. I hated grinding Limbus seemingly endlessly for pieces of the gear and +1 mats. I still hate Dynamis still to this day, shits eaten more hours of my life then it deserves. I hate plasm farming (this is Bahamut, we ain't got no NA boss clearing groups), talk about repetitive? The only way to have fun in such a run is to get random PUGs so something eventful happens and you have something to laugh about.

Even though I hate the repetiveness of these events, I enjoy them because their rewards were/are useful. The nice thing about Skirmish II (at least based on what they said) is rather then JUST doing it for weapons, there's going to be 5 new armor sets in there, and considering our current plasm armor is 2 content lvls below Skirmish II, I'm willing to bet it'll contain plenty of upgrades for everyone, that regardless how boring and repetitive the content is, people will do. Its the nature of MMOs. If the shits useful, it succeeds. Doesn't mean its a great event, sure. Though I do agree with Karbuncle to a degree concerning it. It was fast paced, short, and customizable, gear just blew, and after you got to know the tiers, it too became repetitive, just like every other event in the game.

As mentioned, Bahamut doesn't even have any NA boss clearing groups yet. Those bosses are still an exciting, challenging, mystery to most. Having something out there that LSs know they can down with some work and perseverance adds a certain lair of drive and motivation to players. But on the flip side, ask the LSs that down Tojil 4x a night, and have the other 2 cleared for KIs how they think of the system. No guarantees, but I'd imagine they still love the content because its vastly rewarding, even though they have the shit on farm status, and besides someone dcing or lag spiking, causing missed stuns, things are uneventful and near clockwork reactions to changes in the battle. That doesn't sound all that fun, but making 70k+ plasm and getting full drops on every kill sounds like a fucking blast.

[Gwynplaine]

I'm willing to bet it'll contain plenty of upgrades for everyone, that regardless how boring and repetitive the content is, people will do. Its the nature of MMOs. If the shits useful, it succeeds.

That's true of the lifeless minority who will put up with anything. I refused to camp NMs and do Dynamis for the same reason I'm not grinding out a billion magian staves; because it's brainless grind monkey work to just get you to pay for another month. I regret nothing!

[lolwut]

getting full drops on every kill sounds like a fucking blast.

That alone put SoA content miles above the logwatch/legion/nu-75 stuff in my mind.

Do content, succeed, and get drops. Fail, and still get a reward commensurate with what you put into it.

No 18 people all putting in hours of work for logs and a wind crystal.

[fantasticdan]

^

In MMOs, how much people enjoy endgame content is almost directly related to how useful the contents items and gear are.

Or in this case, the event is also just boring as shit. You zone in, fight some NMs that are essentially just named trash mobs that take seconds to kill, do nothing unique, and pose even shitty players no threat, than use whistle and repeat. Regardless of the gear attached, skirmish (as is), is just lame.

Farming trash mobs for plasm in delve results in tons of top tier gear, and how many people actually enjoy it? Not many I'd wager.

[Reposado]

Or in this case, the event is also just boring as shit. You zone in, fight some NMs that are essentially just named trash mobs that take seconds to kill, do nothing unique, and pose even shitty players no threat, than use whistle and repeat. Regardless of the gear attached, skirmish (as is), is just lame.

Farming trash mobs for plasm in delve results in tons of top tier gear, and how many people actually enjoy it? Not many I'd wager.

Like I said before. Being told last night that a 99 Amano is not good enough for NNI "Because they want to win" and Delve because "it's not efficient anymore" is amazing to hear. I would love to plasm farm, but when even 99 relics are getting turned down because of the "Delve only" mentality, it sucks.

[Spira]

on a slightly more relevant (to thread title) note, did anyone see this pretty shield?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/at...011198&thumb=1

deserved to win imo.

[Slycer]

That shield really does look pretty amazing. I hope they apply the same kind of Iridescence effect they gave to the gem on Chatoyant/Iridal staves.

Anyway, working on those Matsui posts now.

[Byrthnoth]

AFAIK, the "number of bits" explanation is pretty much bullshit and they should be able to go up to 255 (or at least 127) without adjusting anything in the packets directly or increasing the amount of data they have to send. Also, there are relatively few situations where level is actually sent (some of which already accommodate levels over 100).

Manhours is probably a more reasonable explanation. I bet it's just a matter of changing things like the status menu so it can display a 1 in front across all platforms.