Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Fwahm]

How does that affect H2H? I hesitate to assume both fists get the same +Skill benefit from the weapon.

Edit: Off the top of my head, I can't think of many jobs that have comparable skill ratings in two different single-handed weapon types (NIN, RDM and COR?), so the loss of +30-40 skill would still be comparable to just dual-wielding a lower item level weapon in the offhand.

It's not perfect, but other than letting the 1 handed weapons be non rare, or doing something weird like averaging the skill values, I don't see a better solution.

[dasva]

If you dual wielded say, a level 120 sword and a level 115 sword, you could get 350+ attack and accuracy, almost twice that of two hander weapons. I can see their logic.

There are many ways to solve that instead of just making it work on that hand. That's like making it only work for every other hit for 2hders lol.

For example you could just make it average them... kinda like dual wield already does with delay what a concept. Or you could just have it take the highest one and use that. Instead of lulz my mainhand will have 170 more acc than my offhand even though they are the same weapon type.

As it stands it effectively is giving 2hders a huge acc boost while giving 1hders a much smaller one. Actually scratch that make it basically no accuracy boost right now since you can't even dual wield different skill items right now and you going to gear for capped accuracy on both hands

[dasva]

Not if you dual wield different weapon types.

Level 120 sword + level 120 axe, or level 120 sword + level 120 dagger.

That's only true if you are on a job that has 2 weapons of almost the same skill lvl that can also get those weapons. Then you are stuck having to farm 2 weapons to get the same acc/att boost a 2hder gets from 1

[Obsidian]

So no one knows if H2H is in the two-handed camp or the one-handed purgatory?

[Toth]

Does this mean that all weapons are going to become stronger in August? Even delve weapons would see over a 100 plus weapon skill level increase.

[Byrthnoth]

There are many ways to solve that instead of just making it work on that hand. That's like making it only work for every other hit for 2hders lol.

For example you could just make it average them... kinda like dual wield already does with delay what a concept. Or you could just have it take the highest one and use that. Instead of lulz my mainhand will have 170 more acc than my offhand even though they are the same weapon type.

As it stands it effectively is giving 2hders a huge acc boost while giving 1hders a much smaller one. Actually scratch that make it basically no accuracy boost right now since you can't even dual wield different skill items right now and you going to gear for capped accuracy on both hands

Better options would be:
1) Ignore this Skill+ stat if it's in the offhand and apply the mainhand one to both weapons, similar to RM boosts.
2) Stop writing "Skill+derp" on the weapons and just set it up so the Acc/Atk boost you get is directly based on your highest item-level weapon.

The reason for choosing the currently proposed system sort of necessarily has to be to dick over Dual Wield jobs.

[dasva]

Better options would be:
1) Ignore this Skill+ stat if it's in the offhand and apply the mainhand one to both weapons, similar to RM boosts.

I thought about that but then it would depend on what all weapons they add the skill thing to. For right now it would leave you doing weird things like offhand Kerehcatl despite the extra 16 dmg lol.

Either way I agree the way they are doing it now is basically just to dick over dual wield jobs. If we sat here and thought about it we could probably come up with a good dozen different ways to have done this that would have not dicked over dual wield jobs or at least nowhere near as badly without making them super OP compared to 2hders

[Hitou]

The post on the OF made it sound like most or at least a majority of the 100+ weapons are going to have Skill+ added to them. Unless there's going to be a lot of weapons with similar levels of skill+ that you can main/off hand, I'm with Byrth on this. They should have just made the skill+ not work for offhand similar to RM and old school succor of the sidhe crap. People are going to have to over cap acc in the main hand to make up for lower acc in off hand if the skill+ has a wide gap. And dual wielders already only got the str to attack boost for main hand. I think they're really afraid of people going back to the days of axe/ridill or something lol.

[Squah]

Well, with SE adding like 80+ acc/att to weapons, it basically completely eliminates any variety in TP sets. Go dust off those Porthos Byrnies and make windbuffet TP sets for all your 2hander guise

Like seriously, you'll go from barely capping acc with a full acc set on, say, Muyingwa, to being overcapped wearing 0 acc/dex gear under the same buffs. It's not like there are any better songs to sing (like DA to replace madrigals or something) so any variety in TP gear just got nixed

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, until they add monsters with 160 more evasion.

[Taint]

My personal thought is they are going away from DW to make it easier on the DEVs to balance out damage between jobs.

They are taking a flat DPS approach to new weapons, taking out (or limiting their effectiveness) more complex elements like DW makes it easy for them to add new content and items.

[Zirael]

My personal thought is they are going away from DW to make it easier on the DEVs to balance out damage between jobs.

They are taking a flat DPS approach to new weapons, taking out (or limiting their effectiveness) more complex elements like DW makes it easy for them to add new content and items.

Sounds dull.

[Seha]

The good news is ninja would go back to the neat animation of single katana! /backstab

[Nameless]

Well, with SE adding like 80+ acc/att to weapons, it basically completely eliminates any variety in TP sets. Go dust off those Porthos Byrnies and make windbuffet TP sets for all your 2hander guise

Like seriously, you'll go from barely capping acc with a full acc set on, say, Muyingwa, to being overcapped wearing 0 acc/dex gear under the same buffs. It's not like there are any better songs to sing (like DA to replace madrigals or something) so any variety in TP gear just got nixed

Not completely. That just frees up a couple of songs for other buffs. For 2 handers you are still going to worry about hit build, so it is not going to be just putting on junk like Porthos (and wtf I never understand ppl who uses that shit capped accuracy or not). I think this is to free up different buff or different party spot.

[Squah]

Not completely. That just frees up a couple of songs for other buffs. For 2 handers you are still going to worry about hit build, so it is not going to be just putting on junk like Porthos (and wtf I never understand ppl who uses that shit capped accuracy or not). I think this is to free up different buff or different party spot.

Okay, so you TP in your x-hit build forever with no variation. And what, pray tell, do you suggest we use in place of madrigals/minuets? If you're in a situation where bards are being rotated you probably have 7-8 songs and even with mins and mads we have a hard time deciding just wtf to put in that 8th song slot.

Take a quick read through the DPS spreadsheet post. The relevations are pretty recent but we're finding Porthos to not be as bad as we thought it was (for certain things)

[Rehn]

Maybe this won't be taken seriously, but minne V gives 120 (bgwiki). With how dangerous def down is on tojil/daku (enough to consider using panacea), something like minne should be seen as beneficial I would say.

If you're rolling with 7-8 songs, I'd give that consideration.

[InsaniacTHF]

Pretty cool that this back handed nerf affects a job with native DW3 just as much as it does a job with DW50.

[Byrthnoth]

If SE does not release content that still requires Acc buffs with the new weapons, then the real answer is that you just won't need 8 songs anymore and having Daurd will be much less of a bonus. One more RME invalidated.

[dasva]

If SE does not release content that still requires Acc buffs with the new weapons, then the real answer is that you just won't need 8 songs anymore and having Daurd will be much less of a bonus. One more RME invalidated.

Or 1 daurd for 2 pts!!! Throw in another DD

[Fwahm]

The normal IT mobs in Marjani, like the new pink birds, have evasion comparable (or even slightly higher than) to lower delve NMs, like the Eft. The next tier of delve NMs will logically have much higher evasion. I see these weapons as likely being ways to keep up, instead of ways to get ahead of the game.