Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Yugl]

Lets say you have 1hr of a jumps (60*60 = 3600s):

New system with merits: 248 rounds of TP (20 rounds of Soul Jump; 40 rounds of Spirit Jump)

Old system with merits: 252 rounds of TP (36 rounds of Soul Jump; 72 rounds of Spirit Jump)

Should get more damage from the old system too.

Method (In case of an error):

Jump/Old Spirit Jump: 50s
High Jump/Old Soul Jump: 100s
New Spirit Jump: 90s
New Soul Jump: 120s

X = Jump recast
3600/X = N jumps
(N Jumps)*(TP Multiplier)

Spirit Jump TP Multiplier = 2
Soul Jump TP Multiplier = 3

[Ophannus]

People were excited about the DRG split of Jumps about a year ago but that was back when Jump and High Jump were 90/180 seconds. Now that Jump/High Jump are 60/120 seconds, splitting the jumps surely reduces our damage. Yugl, your damage calculations show the older system being favorable, not only is this the case but it doesn't even factor in JA delay which exaggerates the damage difference even more. If we're spamming Jump and High Jump with the same frequency as Spirit and Soul Jump now, then factor in another 2 jumps every 90/180 seconds, that's more time spent in JA delay. The new paradigm would be better before they adjusted Jump timers a few months ago but under the proposed recast adjustments and with the extra JA delay, DRG's damage will decrease.
Under the proposed system, with the split, you're adding in 60 more 'jump attacks' per hour. 40 spirit and 20 soul. Right now we average 108 Jumps per hour (72 Spirit, 36 Soul), once they split the timers and we get 60 more Jumps per our, albeit the weaker Jumps, that makes 60 more jumps but also 60 more instances of JA delay per hour. JA delay is what, 2 seconds? That's 120seconds or 2 minutes of JA delay per hour.

Actually though, this new system makes DRG without a wyvern slightly better than how we currently are without a wyvern since without wyverns, Jump is superior for damage than Spirit Jump. When they split the timers they may need to rethink Jump and High Jump's damage formulas or at least their TP values. At least give them level-based damage bonuses so that every 10-15 levels they get bonus D or bonus TP. Even fully buffed with 1.2k+ Attack, vanilla Jump only does like 300ish damage, it's crap because I could have attacked twice during the animation and JA delay. They could also give DRG traits that improve the TP and damage gained from jumps, call it "Airtime" for the lulz.

[Kaisha]

{{I fudged parts of this a little where it got technical, but I think it captured the meaning behind the post.}}

Regarding Expansion of the Macro Palette

Regarding extending the number of rows in macros; this has not been implemented base on our policy because it cannot be supported by the Playstation 2 version.

We've said this in other places, so I hope you can also refer to past posts, but this is in order to avoid adding mechanisms which can lead to botted actions, since you cannot execute many actions with one macro in the current state.

We ask for your understanding in this situation.

Outside of spamming magic for skill-up, what exactly can you even 'bot' in modern FFXI using the built-in macro commands?

Such a retarded argument for not having more lines, as well as pretending their PC playerbase don't have hundreds of macro lines automated for them at any point in interaction.

[NynJa]

Because extending 6 lines to 20 will really cause people to bot via FFXI macros...

[Slycer]

Because extending 6 lines to 20 will really cause people to bot via FFXI macros...

I think PS2 limitations are the real reason. They just feel the need to come up with some other bogus reason so that people don't start berating them again for citing PS2 limitations as a reason to not do something.

[solkanar]

Not sure if I was reading the TH post correctly, is it basically saying that keeping TH gear equipped increases the likelihood of TH level raising?

[Slycer]

Not sure if I was reading the TH post correctly, is it basically saying that keeping TH gear equipped increases the likelihood of TH level raising?

Yes, they're saying the higher the spread between your TH level (including gear) and the TH level on the monster, the more likely TH will go up. Unless I entirely screwed up the translation, of course. Hopefully we'll get an official translation of this later because there were some unclear details I left out.

[Yugl]

Wouldn't that mean you should use less gear though?

[NynJa]

Wouldn't that mean you should use less gear though?

Thats what I'm understanding too lol

either way, SE's logic continues to make no fucking sense:
RNG: were going to adjust your AF2+2 hat because the aug makes it very overpowered and we dont want to force everyone to use one piece of gear
THF: if you want to max out your TH+ rate, keep your base TH high, were forcing you to wear your TK/AA+2/RP+2

[Kincard]

so basically THFs have to full time their TH gear at provenence and legion now?

[NynJa]

Chances are their shit strikes wont do enough to raise TH, if it is based on damage done like initial notes said. just stack feint with SA or TA and equip TH+ gear. Ive given in to the belief that feints th bonus applies to application strike.

[Slycer]

Wouldn't that mean you should use less gear though?

Huh? If you have, say, TH level 7 on the monster, but you're equipped with TH level 12 in gear, you're gonna have a 5 level spread. If you take off some of that gear the spread will be lower and apparently decrease your chance of increasing the TH level on the monster.

so basically THFs have to full time their TH gear at provenence and legion now?

Whatever the situation is, nothing has changed or is changing except potentially our knowledge of how it all works. I'd really hold off on making any judgments one way or the other until we get an official translation on this (and we need to push for one on the OF it we don't get it today because it's pretty important).

[Yugl]

If you have TH12 in gear, the first strike brings the TH to LV12. Subsequent hits will have a chance of TH12 or higher.

[TSFFXI]

Edit: Nevermind, you're right. That doesn't make any sense.

[Yugl]

They're probably referring to a positive spread, not a negative one.

Well they said "further apart" rather than spread.

[Yugl]

They're probably referring to a positive spread, not a negative one.

Well they said "further apart" rather than spread.

[Slycer]

I went through again to check for errors, and a slight tweak to that line may make it make more sense:

"There is an increased probability if there is a difference between the the value of the player's TH level and the current TH level. The results will vary depending on the respective differences."

Sounds more like, for example, if you had some gimp TH on from Bounty Shot, there would be a much higher chance that TH level would go up when a THF with higher level TH hits it, and that chance would increase more with higher levels of TH. I'm not getting anything different on the stuff about TH equipment in the next paragraph though. Let's just wait for an official translation before we jump to conclusions.

[Byrthnoth]

There's a 100% chance the TH will go up if a Thief with a higher level of TH hits it. It doesn't even have to give a proc message. It's just an upgrade.

What they mean by that is:
* If you have TH3+0 (no gear), upgrading from TH3 to TH4 is easier than upgrading from TH4 to TH5
* If you have TH3+4 (+4 in gear), upgrading from TH7 to TH8 is easier than upgrading from TH8 to TH9.
They may also mean that upgrading from TH7 to TH8 in the second case is exactly as easy as upgrading from TH3 to TH4 in the first case, which is something I've suspected.

[pancakesandsex]

I went through again to check for errors, and a slight tweak to that line may make it make more sense:

"There is an increased probability if there is a difference between the the value of the player's TH level and the current TH level. The results will vary depending on the respective differences."

Sounds more like, for example, if you had some gimp TH on from Bounty Shot, there would be a much higher chance that TH level would go up when a THF with higher level TH hits it. I'm not getting anything different on the stuff about TH equipment in the next paragraph though. Let's just wait for an official translation before we jump to conclusions.

If a mob has gimp TH on it from bounty shot, ANY hit from the thf will increase TH to whatever they had in gear at the time.

Example:
Bounty shot is applied
Thf swings at that same mob wearing TH6, mob now has TH6 applied, no upgrade is procced at this point
Thf removes TH gear, continues swinging, the next proc will be TH7.

What I am reading in your post is counter intuitive, since they are saying as the gap widens between gear (TH6) and whatever is on the mob (TH7+), it becomes easier to proc TH upgrades....that doesn't seem right. I'm not sure if that's what the original Japanese is implying or if there is a misinterpretation.

[NynJa]

They may also mean that upgrading from TH7 to TH8 in the second case is exactly as easy as upgrading from TH3 to TH4 in the first case, which is something I've suspected.

I can run a fourth test with nyn without any TH whatsoever at any given time and see how the TH+ procs hit accordingly.

I'll just start the thread I suppose lol, atleast I can throw down my test1 data and people can judge it.