Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

**pchan** · 2012-12-02 05:54

Well do it then. You are good at posting not good at acting. It's obvious to anyone but you that neo nyzul ajustment makes a win even less probable, even at floor 80.

**mdkuser** · 2012-12-02 07:07

For ADL nothing changed since, as someone said above, you just have to shock squal right alway. You take a risk when he is in magic spammy mode, thats it. Our win rater will juts go down from 80% to 70%? nothing happened to most groups even low man, which proves that thier PD nerf is just meant to piss of their players and make things harder. Same for nyzul, despite being said that floor 100 is now impossible, they told us to suck less w. Even floor 80 will need luck now.

**pchan** · 2012-12-02 07:50

I don't see F80 being winnable 100% like it is more or less now (fillmode etc). People claim 20% winrate today with embrava not nerfed ; It's a great boost to handeling mobs aggro and on killall. Those floor are probably 1/4 of what you get. It' will cost you 3-4 jumps at least so I cannot imagine that F80 is winnable more than 20% of the time. So 25 times to get a piece of gear which is about what you got at this time if you spam F80. However it's hard to seize exactly the effect of embrava right now. 2x brd with marchx2 paeonx2 is probably equivalent, baring regain. If you only use one bard and one sch for regen, you will waste time casting songs.

**Michelob** · 2012-12-02 08:44

Originally Posted by pchan

I don't see F80 being winnable 100% like it is more or less now (fillmode etc). People claim 20% winrate today with embrava not nerfed ; It's a great boost to handeling mobs aggro and on killall. Those floor are probably 1/4 of what you get. It' will cost you 3-4 jumps at least so I cannot imagine that F80 is winnable more than 20% of the time. So 25 times to get a piece of gear which is about what you got at this time if you spam F80. However it's hard to seize exactly the effect of embrava right now. 2x brd with marchx2 paeonx2 is probably equivalent, baring regain. If you only use one bard and one sch for regen, you will waste time casting songs.

Use the BRD as the rune bitch to keep Night/Troub/SV locked as long as possible. Use SCH for the other slot that can cover haste/accession regen/cures/stuns/nukes. Regain loss is significant but then again increased average floor jumps and new target of 80 should more than make up for it. I predict a floor 80 win percentage of significantly greater than 20% for good groups.

**Byrthnoth** · 2012-12-02 08:47

The fact that you'll not have capped magic haste (at least sometimes) and won't have Regain favors BLU the most as a Neo-NI job.

**pchan** · 2012-12-02 09:07

That was a good one haha

**NynJa** · 2012-12-02 11:28

Originally Posted by Michelob

Use the BRD as the rune bitch to keep Night/Troub/SV locked as long as possible.

You cant lock on rune, otherwise people wouldnt need 2 sch's

Originally Posted by pchan

I don't see F80 being winnable 100% like it is more or less now (fillmode etc). People claim 20% winrate today with embrava not nerfed ; It's a great boost to handeling mobs aggro and on killall. Those floor are probably 1/4 of what you get. It' will cost you 3-4 jumps at least so I cannot imagine that F80 is winnable more than 20% of the time. So 25 times to get a piece of gear which is about what you got at this time if you spam F80. However it's hard to seize exactly the effect of embrava right now. 2x brd with marchx2 paeonx2 is probably equivalent, baring regain. If you only use one bard and one sch for regen, you will waste time casting songs.

Max floor jump is being changed to 11, meaning your average is 6.5 floors per jump. Needing to get to F80 instead of F100 means you've cut down to an average of 13 jumps needed from the current 17. So your "losing 3-4 floors max" falls right into the sweet spot, perhaps you need some 'mathed' help.

I see the new NNI being completely winnable with a decent setup going for F80, but you'll need to vary your DD's from MNKMNKMNKMNK otherwise a custard boss followed by a kill all amorph floor will be more devastating than a 5 order lamp floor.

Having said that, still makes no sense to basically make F100 obsolete, "where only the luckiest of the lucky will get there". No ones getting there if you're forced to put the stopper on F80. If the stopper forced you to hit F80, then gave you the chance to move forward...sure, cool, now F100 is available.

**Xantavia** · 2012-12-02 17:18

Originally Posted by pchan

Wrong. The content needs to be ajusted. If people use PD and embrava, there is a reason. Also PD is hardly a nerf. They can't remove it because it makes too many things impossible. PD/embrava were there during abyssea and VW and there were no complaints.

I was under the impression that this would be a 2 part process. Weaken PD and embrava, then adjust the content that relied on those abilities. Makes sense to do it in that order, even if it creates a short period of time when said content becomes almost impossible. If they went the other way (ease content difficulty, then job adjustment), it would make it possible to steamroll events until they came in line again.

That, and how would you design a baseline event difficulty while OP abilities are still in play.

**NynJa** · 2012-12-02 17:25

Originally Posted by Xantavia

That, and how would you design a baseline event difficulty while OP abilities are still in play.

Theyre supposed to do that from the get go

This just dawned about me about the Refresh Embrava's going to offer:
post patch, 500 skill fully buffed embrava: 6mp tick for 3m45s
Refresh2 from a properly buffed RDM: 7mp/tick for 4m52s

**dasva** · 2012-12-02 18:51

Originally Posted by NynJa

Theyre supposed to do that from the get go

This just dawned about me about the Refresh Embrava's going to offer:
post patch, 500 skill fully buffed embrava: 6mp tick for 3m45s
Refresh2 from a properly buffed RDM: 7mp/tick for 4m52s

But they will stack making it even more epic and you can AOE embrava!!! lol jk. Well at least blus will be useful in nyzle again

**Obsidian** · 2012-12-02 19:03

Originally Posted by NynJa

Theyre supposed to do that from the get go

This just dawned about me about the Refresh Embrava's going to offer:
post patch, 500 skill fully buffed embrava: 6mp tick for 3m45s
Refresh2 from a properly buffed RDM: 7mp/tick for 4m52s

Somewhat mitigated by the fact that no one brings RDM to anything any more, least of all to refresh people.

**pancakesandsex** · 2012-12-02 22:12

Originally Posted by NynJa

Theyre supposed to do that from the get go

This just dawned about me about the Refresh Embrava's going to offer:
post patch, 500 skill fully buffed embrava: 6mp tick for 3m45s
Refresh2 from a properly buffed RDM: 7mp/tick for 4m52s

Refresh 2 doesn't ascession.

**noodles355** · 2012-12-02 23:15

Originally Posted by pchan

or that you clear F80 nyzul without embrava when you can't.

suck less¿

If you can't reach F80 after the update then you don't fucking deserve Nyzul gear because you're too terrible a player.

Our group had a 55% success rate on getting 80 or above before they added the stopper with Blu/Thf/Drk/War/Sam/Sch having embrava up only 15% of the time.

Spoiler: show

If we could get that with a gimp setup, without the upcoming floor and lamp adjustments and without the stopper, then you have no fucking excuse.

**dasva** · 2012-12-03 02:19

Not saying getting to 80 will be impossible after they gimp embrava but saying you got there or higher half the time when you actually had full potency embrava if only for gimp periods and without stopper rerolling you kinda undermines your but we did it with a gimp setup.

Think you may be forgetting that getting 80 or above without stopper is actually easier than getting 80 with stopper unless they change how the stopper works with the update. And that having embrava only 15% of the time is still better than having it up 100% of the time after the update lol. Also how do you have it up only 15% of the time? Is that like an average because you didn't have it up half the runs or something?

**Jem** · 2012-12-03 02:47

Originally Posted by dasva

Also how do you have it up only 15% of the time? Is that like an average because you didn't have it up half the runs or something?

We didn't reset 2 hours so it would only be up for 1 run out of every 3-4 for 12.5 mins (SCH didn't hold Rasa/refresh Embrava when we first started). We were horribly inefficient until after stopper was added.

Our DD's weren't anywhere near as good as the standard DD nowadays either. (95 Apoc/Ragna, 85 Masa, 85 Ukon)

80 after Embrava nerf is a lot easier than people are making out. If you are competent then barring the most horrendous of luck, you should be hitting 80 the vast majority of the time imho.

And whilst you say 80 pre-stopper was easier. What you have to take into account is we targeted 80 not 100 most runs. So a lot of those 80 are actually 77 > 78 > 79 > 80 etc. So it was in fact harder than with stopper, not easier. (I think we went up in singles from 76 onwards, lower and we went with random)

EDIT: Examples

Spoiler: show

The 81+ runs were generally where we overshot from like 72-75 or when we carried on after 80 clear.

**noodles355** · 2012-12-03 08:45

Originally Posted by dasva

Think you may be forgetting that getting 80 or above without stopper is actually easier than getting 80 with stopper

How? With the stopper you never have to take single floors. If you were always aiming for 100 (whih Jem mentions wasn't the case, we often took singles to hit 80 instead) then there should be no difference in difficulty between hitting 80+ without stopper and hitting 80 with stopper - the stopper will make that 80+ floor an 80.

Originally Posted by dasva

Also how do you have it up only 15% of the time? Is that like an average because you didn't have it up half the runs or something?

Yes. In my spoiler, every --- separates a group of runs. We would have 1x embrava for one of those runs, so 10 runs out of 34, 29.4% only up for half the run, 14.7, 15~%.

**Slycer** · 2012-12-03 09:34

You might as well shelve this debate now since the PD/Embrava nerf has been postponed. Translation will be up shortly.

**Jem** · 2012-12-03 09:48

Whilst completely logical, I am honestly surprised to see them bow to public pressure. Usually they just steamroller forward regardless of negative feedback.

EDIT: Meebles storage update it nice too purely so that I stop getting harassed constantly by static members about us possibly wasting tags when I don't really care!

**Slycer** · 2012-12-03 09:51

Translations up. tl;dr, no PD/Embrava nerf in this update, pheromone sacks will accumulate up to 10, or up to 16 if you buy certain KIs with marks. Use up your sacks before VU as you'll have 10 after the VU regardless of what you had before. Also indirectly pinpointed the timing in one of the posts as "mid-December" which leaves 10th~12th or 17th~19th as the only real possibilities.

**Byrthnoth** · 2012-12-03 09:52

Sweeeeeet.

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