Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Slycer]

Will the elemental changes skew magian vs chatoyant at all?

Can't, theyre both percentage bonuses. Applied as separate multipliers, but still percentage bonuses separate from INT/base damage term (there might be a very slight skew in the percentage improvement because of the INT+5 on Chatoyant, but it wouldn't be anything drastic). The only thing that could be skewed forward is something that has a very significant amount of INT. Can't think of anything offhand, but I'm sure there's something.

Edit: Can't come up with anything in weapon slot, but I can see tons of chaos being caused by INT vs MAB modifications in literally every other gear slot.

[fantasticdan]

I remember hearing chatoyant would win in certain cases if you had enough multipliers (affinity atma + weather), because the magian staff bonus is applied in a less ideal part of the equation. I assumed the value of iridescence vs magian would increase as the spells damage (before weapon) does, is that not the case?

[Slycer]

I remember hearing chatoyant would win in certain cases if you had enough multipliers (affinity atma + weather), because the magian staff bonus is applied in a less ideal part of the equation. I assumed the value of iridescence vs magian would increase as the spells damage (before weapon) does, is that not the case?

Iridescence stacks with the weather multiplier. These are multipliers independent of the base value. Just make believe the base value is some fake number X. Then you multiply X by a bunch of multipliers. If you then say well, now that base number is Y instead of X, but you still multiply by all the same multipliers, the percentage increase is still going to be the same.

[Toth]

Wow, some awesome changes in there. My BLM is screaming for joy and I am very excited about the increases for PUP DD.

I wonder if these changes will be implemented in the next Vi since it is supposed to be happening soon ( and before March)

[Chamaan]

What is this madness I woke up to?

The Drk thing does seem like kind of a redistribution of the wealth, but if these Defense/Attack ratio changes apply to mobs too, it could do some weird things to damage numbers in low buff situations (single/no bard or cor in party against high level free-roaming SoA NMs or IT++ mobs).

The nuke changes are craycray, happy for you guys (Blm and Rdm, holy shit Rdm, you guys) that you're getting magical auto-attack. Boost/Gain-Int just became best mage buffs. Can't help but wonder what this'll do for my puppet. And hey, you Drks totally can spam those nukes for your Occult Acumen TP gain! It's not a nerf!

I welcome any 1hd damage adjustments. I'm a Warrior and I got five Fencer traits. I'll Ruinator my happy ass all the way to the bank.

[fantasticdan]

Iridescence stacks with the weather multiplier. These are multipliers independent of the base value. Just make believe the base value is some fake number X. Then you multiply X by a bunch of multipliers. If you then say well, now that base number is Y instead of X, but you still multiply by all the same multipliers, the percentage increase is still going to be the same.

What causes chatoyant to overtake with magians with weather + affinity atmas than? Or is that not true in the first place?

[Slycer]

By the way, in case anyone was wondering, MAB vs INT calculation is totally different.

I prepped a table comparing all the nukes for what we would consider a "normal" gear setup right now in the game (i.e. dINT=~50, MAB=~120, staff=1.35 magian). The staff part is irrelevant since it's a separate multiplier, but I just threw it in so the numbers looked right.

Anyway, here are a few notes, all starting from that dINT=50, MAB=120, Staff=1.35 basepoint.

1) Stone V before: 2200, Stone V after: 2745
--> Before: damage of 10 MAB ~ damage of 15 INT
--> After: 10 MAB ~ 7.5 INT
2) Thunder V before: 2937, Thunder V after: 3267
--> Before: 10 MAB ~ 20 INT
--> After: 10 MAB ~ 12.5 INT
3) Stone III before: 844, Stone III after: 1113
--> Before: 10 MAB ~ 9 INT
--> After: 10 MAB ~ 5 INT
4) Thunder III before: 1247, Thunder III after: 1410
--> Before: 10 MAB ~ 13 INT
--> After: 10 MAB ~ 9 INT

Conclusion: After this update, MAB will be HUGELY devalued as compared to INT (although I guess the proper way to look at it would be that INT's value will hugely increase). Talking like a 50% change in the effect ratio for Stone nukes and a 30% change for Thunder nukes. The best gear options will change in almost every single slot. I cannot say that this pleases me, but these changes were long overdue, and it looks like everything goes up in damage either way, so I'll take it.

For you DD folk out there, consider how you'd feel if they changed all your weapon skills from one stat modifier to another. This will have a similar impact on gearing for nukes.

[arus2001]

What is this madness I woke up to?

While I'm hesitant about the DRK tweak, the rest is something that does have me curious. Always thought it'd be about 6 months post-Tanaka that we'd start seeing changes, and sure enough, here they come. Granted, I still don't see people picking RDMs over SCH or BLM for nuking purposes.

[Byrthnoth]

This will actually improve the relative standing of Laev and Tupsimati to elemental staves, because you'll probably gear less for MAB and more for INT which means that the MAB from Laev or Tupsi will grant a larger damage increase.

Something like this for a new generic nuking set?
Magian/Wizzan/____/Ombre
Nares/Stoichion/Strophadic/Novio
Morri+1/AF3+2/Icesoul/Icesoul
AF3/Wanion/Akasha/Morri +1

[Chamaan]

For you DD folk out there, consider how you'd feel if they changed all your weapon skills from one stat modifier to another. This will have a similar impact on gearing for nukes.

My Bravura and I are both tumescent at the thought of Upheaval's stat mod being something other than Vit. Preferably Str.

While I'm hesitant about the DRK tweak, the rest is something that does have me curious. Always thought it'd be about 6 months post-Tanaka that we'd start seeing changes, and sure enough, here they come. Granted, I still don't see people picking RDMs over SCH or BLM for nuking purposes.

Yeah this whole thing has a real Fall of the House of Usher vibe to it. Matsui is going to build us a beautiful manse atop the incestuous bones of Tanaka's FFXI.

[Kincard]

Conclusion: After this update, MAB will be HUGELY devalued as compared to INT

So basically Morrigan +1 has gone back to being really meh (I guess the boots are still good). That's kinda disappointing.

[Slycer]

I mean there are some pieces which clearly don't change as best-in-slot. Akasha Chaps, Nares Cap... each of those has their respective slots on complete lockdown for nuking gear. Similarly with the new Morrigan's Pigaches +1. However, I believe that what's currently the best in every other slot may change. Even talking changes to things you'd never think to change out. For example, Strophadic Earring from Aello would be better than Hecate's or Sortiarius as the secondary nuke earring.

[Prothescar]

1h adjustment could be very good news for BLU and MNK. DRK changes are stupid though, will only really benefit SAM

[Darkmagi]

SAM/DRK bandwagon incoming! My mythic is pleased.

[Byrthnoth]

For capped magic Haste, /WAR is probably going to stay very competitive with /DRK for SAMs that don't have Koga. You either gain the last 1-2% Haste (theoretical ~5~10% damage increase) and 15% Attack for 3 / 5 minutes or you gain 10% DA (all the time) and 25% attack for 3/5 minutes for a job without much native multihit. I bet the subs are pretty comparable unless you devalue DA to near-0 (aka activate AM3).

[Tarage]

Am I the only one excited about #7? As a poor bastard who still doesn't have Foreboding Hands, I welcome this change with open arms.

[Darkmagi]

It could be possible that the JA haste isn't just for 2handers too. That would make /drk a whole lot more useful.

[Taint]

Capped magic haste SAM can already ready 80% cap. (43,25,10,2.5 from Unkai)

[arus2001]

LR change wouldn't bug me so much if Hasso didn't have the Slow Cast angle to it. I know why SE did it: Seigan/TE+Utsu would've been pretty tight for SAM/NIN, but wanting to cast stuff with DRK like Drain/Aspir/Spikes almost always necessitates killing Hasso if you don't want the penalties. Maybe someone should go bug SE on the OF to tweak those to only affect Ninjutsu.

[Prothescar]

At near capped haste /DRK is a loss for 1hs but a gain pretty much anywhere decently below cap. may be more interesting for DNC since it doesnt need the DA trait anyway, though