Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[arus2001]

Would be cool if they buffed Helixes up as well.

The did with the Dark Arts adjustment and they're already incredibly MP/Enmity efficient. Might be better off hoping for T2s at some point.

I feel like SCH has too much gear to devote inventory to more than one piece in each slot to nuking, especially if you have an accumulation of magian staves. I'll probably settle on some optimized hybrid of the two sets and deal with that. I'm generally at like 77/80 with just gear, so three slots for meds/food/lotting shit is already almost impossible to deal with.

All the more reason to bug SE about a trial to combine the end staves of a matching tier. Mages have always had it rough with inventory if you try to be flexible. I know it took forever just to see Chatoyant, but maybe Matsui will budge here.

[Hashmalum]

The did with the Dark Arts adjustment and they're already incredibly MP/Enmity efficient. Might be better off hoping for T2s at some point.

Didn't SE say they were considering that,a while back? I'm thinking they're waiting until they expand the spell limits to implement it.

All the more reason to bug SE about a trial to combine the end staves of a matching tier. Mages have always had it rough with inventory if you try to be flexible. I know it took forever just to see Chatoyant, but maybe Matsui will budge here.

Don't forget that we'll also need to be able to store that stuff until we finish making all the staves then doing whatever hoops they decide to require to combine them. Relic armor +2 has shown that Porter Moogles can store augmented items as long as the augment is fixed, and that is the case for end-stage Magian staves.

[Chamaan]

The inventory woes will be fixed when matsui reveals that while they were monkeying with the original game code for max spell list and zone limitations, they added more inventory capacity. Now you can get 100 inventory. But the key item is bought from a moogle and costs 999m gil. The ensuing rush to cap gil by every player will break the economy as everything on AH octuples in price. Linkshells will break. Shady bitches will server hop with bank mules and kraken clubs. Real marriages will end in divorce.

[Taim Meich]

Thats gonna give it alooooot of tp. What is it? 10tp a nuke?

On content where TP feed matters, big ebullienced nukes are the solution, of course. You won't run out of MP given the new MP costs, and the damage/TP fed ratio becomes awesome. On things you know that are going to spam TP moves anyway, spamming T2s is the new shiny mage tool.

[Economizer]

That's what I said earlier. They're probably going to make all you Blms get spell-specific subtle blow.

Auspice from your White Mage, Monk's Roll from your Corsair, although given party sizes it's likely we'll just see Penance/Yurin from someone in a different spot in an alliance if you need a significant amount of Black Mages, since they benefit from being in the same party with Meteor.

One question that comes to my mind is if Scholars with a Hvergelmir will be able to exploit their Occult Acumen to absurd amounts now. I doubt it, but there might be a way to exploit it for endless MP with near-constant nuking and TP feed without outside buffs.

[Byrthnoth]

You're overly worried about TP fed for black magic. Regardless how much TP it gives, it's still way more damage/TP efficient than the most TP efficient melees.

[Taim Meich]

While constant nukes with pretty much limitless MP thanks to the extra TP is great, no doubt, I think that it doesn't compensate for the loss of damage per nuke, specially since SCH is already really MP efficient.

[NynJa]

On content where TP feed matters, big ebullienced nukes are the solution, of course. You won't run out of MP given the new MP costs, and the damage/TP fed ratio becomes awesome. On things you know that are going to spam TP moves anyway, spamming T2s is the new shiny mage tool.

Worrying about TP feed when you've got 3-8 double marched 2handers beating on something is kinda dumb to begin with.

[Dotsudoku]

As long as you don't nuke anything outside of legion/voidwatch style content, yeah sure.

Like? Even shit like meeble bosses has TP too quickly to care. Unless programmed to do so, things don't use their TP the second they have it

[Psion]

Yeah, the only things you probably would worry about tp spamming on are automatons and perhaps humanoid NPCs, which use their TP at around 100% no matter how much hp they got left. (and also skillchain your ass for added fun!)

Anything else, worrying about TP feed is meaningless unless you're lowmanning it.

[Dotsudoku]

I may be oversimplifying things, but I really can't see worrying about it unless you have one TP-controlled job smacking it. Turn that into two monks or two warriors, and you've already dramatically increased your enemies TP gain.

[noodles355]

I feel like SCH has too much gear to devote inventory to more than one piece in each slot to nuking, especially if you have an accumulation of magian staves. I'll probably settle on some optimized hybrid of the two sets and deal with that. I'm generally at like 77/80 with just gear, so three slots for meds/food/lotting shit is already almost impossible to deal with.

Sch already carries more than one nuking set. Unless you're Nuking and casting Helices in the same gear.

[sydok]

For kicks, made some near ideal sets and adjusted them vs each other for new elemental stone3 to thunder5 dmg
...

Do you mind posting the base INT for the BLM you assumed? Additionally, did you include the 3 MAB from Morrigan+1 set bonus? I only checked Stone 3, but for my math to match yours it looks like 104 base INT and no set bonus.

Edit: checking other values, it doesn't seem to match.

[Chamaan]

When I asked about it earlier I specifically mentioned small party play. Like 3 or so people. Gotta remember we got an expansion coming around the corner. Shit's going to be balanced around 99 (IT++ mobs) so there will be challenges and fun to be had with a couple of buddies out in that funky jungle. Would be nice to have to actually pay attention again while playing the game. Blms in a DD/Healer/Blm trio setup are going to have to watch their TP spam, and enmity. Maybe not enmity so much if they ever get those enmity changes we've been asking for, who knows?

[Dotsudoku]

Again, we're talking about things that almost arbitrarily use or withhold their TP until a low, fixed percent of their HP remains. It's unlikely to be any more relevant than it is now.

[Obsidian]

I may be oversimplifying things, but I really can't see worrying about it unless you have one TP-controlled job smacking it. Turn that into two monks or two warriors, and you've already dramatically increased your enemies TP gain.

MNK was probably the wrong job to make your point with, between Penance and capped subtle blow without trying.

[Dotsudoku]

Aside from Penance, monk has never been anything special with regard to TP management. Capped subtle blow means next to nothing when you're swinging a minimum of twice per round

I'm reasonably certain that a WAR is oftentimes if not always going to give less TP

[fantasticdan]

Like? Even shit like meeble bosses has TP too quickly to care. Unless programmed to do so, things don't use their TP the second they have it

Out of currently existing content, probably just neo-salvage bosses, but I would hope we're getting more battle content in SoA that isn't just mindless zergs. And yes, mobs will use TP the second they have it, the required TP is just higher than 100 (generally), unless they're sub 25% hp or whatever.

[Obsidian]

Dunno about Counters, but Retaliation hits give the enemy TP, and MNKs can inflict Plague (lol) through Shijin Spiral. Damage:TP might be a different matter but I think MNK will win the TP battle.

[Radec]

Do you mind posting the base INT for the BLM you assumed? Additionally, did you include the 3 MAB from Morrigan+1 set bonus? I only checked Stone 3, but for my math to match yours it looks like 104 base INT and no set bonus.

Edit: checking other values, it doesn't seem to match.

Yes set bonus, 114 int (taru blm/sch + 12/12 merits)

Didn't worry about any flooring since it's just approximate.

v = [200 230 260 290 320 350 400 440 480 520 560 600 650 700 750 800 850 900];
v100 = [550 560 570 580 590 600 850 865 880 895 910 925 1200 1220 1240 1260 1280 1300];
m = (v100-v)/100;

sets = [170,117,0.35;
    202,90,0.35;
    170,217,0;
    202,190,0];

tINT = 80;

for i=1:4
    for j=1:18
        dmg(j,i) = ((sets(i,1)-tINT)*m(j)+v(j))*((sets(i,2)+100)/100)*(1+sets(i,3));
    end
end

Sets are just summed from base+stats, also remember I'm doing this as BLM so the base mab is different than sch.

Sets are (int, mab, affinitybonus)