Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Dotsudoku]

And yes, mobs will use TP the second they have it, the required TP is just higher than 100 (generally), unless they're sub 25% hp or whatever.

Alright, but no

Go out and document any sort of predictable usage pattern at an HP greater than 25%

[TummieGaruda]

Out of currently existing content, probably just neo-salvage bosses, but I would hope we're getting more battle content in SoA that isn't just mindless zergs. And yes, mobs will use TP the second they have it, the required TP is just higher than 100 (generally), unless they're sub 25% hp or whatever.

Huh?? I am not sure this statement is true. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it is common knowledge that monsters undergo a TP check at random intervals when their HP is above 25% HP. When their HP is below 25%, they will use TP moves when they are at 100%. This has been used blatantly by BLU mages when farming spells...for instance learning Winds of Promyvian was best done by BLU's subbing /mage and then casting nukes (10% TP fed to the mob with each spell) till they got it to 100% TP. At that point they would cast a debuff on the mob then immediately force its HP below the 25% threshold via nuking out of range. This forced a TP move and since there was no target in range, the mob would cast Winds of Promyvian to erase the debuff from itself.

[Dotsudoku]

As far as I know, the prevailing theory is that the wheel of fortune is spun every time an enemy acts/is acted on while they possess adequate TP. It hits you with 100+ TP? Chance to use an ability. You hit it while it has 100+ TP? Chance to use an ability. Fortunately, the chance doesn't seem especially high, but when everyone's smacking things as fast as they are, statistics catches up with us

And of course, the take away from this is that TP doesn't matter against anything that isn't programmed to use it immediately

[BerenTebogo]

Out of currently existing content, probably just neo-salvage bosses, but I would hope we're getting more battle content in SoA that isn't just mindless zergs. And yes, mobs will use TP the second they have it, the required TP is just higher than 100 (generally), unless they're sub 25% hp or whatever.

False and a half.

[dasva]

As far as the whole tp feed debate what is there out there that it's better to use 1 melee and a blm(s) vs more melees?

[sydok]

Yes set bonus, 114 int (taru blm/sch + 12/12 merits)

Didn't worry about any flooring since it's just approximate.

v = [200 230 260 290 320 350 400 440 480 520 560 600 650 700 750 800 850 900];
v100 = [550 560 570 580 590 600 850 865 880 895 910 925 1200 1220 1240 1260 1280 1300];
m = (v100-v)/100;

sets = [170,117,0.35;
    202,90,0.35;
    170,217,0;
    202,190,0];

tINT = 80;

for i=1:4
    for j=1:18
        dmg(j,i) = ((sets(i,1)-tINT)*m(j)+v(j))*((sets(i,2)+100)/100)*(1+sets(i,3));
    end
end

Sets are just summed from base+stats, also remember I'm doing this as BLM so the base mab is different than sch.

Sets are (int, mab, affinitybonus)

I'm getting different MAB and INT values from the sets. It's late for me so I'll double check all my values for the gear tomorrow. Regardless of the differences, I came to the same conclusions as you. Additionally, as I assumed it would be, Mythic without aftermath is beaten by the Magian staff. I doubt any gear changes will change that, but I can look more into it tomorrow. That was the information I was really looking for. I will also need to look into the feasibility of keeping aftermath up with regain since Occult Acumen won't be enough on its own.

Spoiler: show

Assuming the BLM used oneiros rope for enhanced Occult Acumen, they BLM would need to cast over 4000 mp worth of spells to get the lowest level of aftermath. Ignoring if it is possible to spend that much mp in the 3 minutes aftermath lasts, refresh2, relic brd, cor, and sublimation can't even provide half that MP in 3 minutes. The only option would be regain, which a cor, sch and earring could provide in 3 minutes.

[Radec]

I'm getting different MAB and INT values from the sets. It's late for me so I'll double check all my values for the gear tomorrow. Regardless of the differences, I came to the same conclusions as you. Additionally, as I assumed it would be, Mythic without aftermath is beaten by the Magian staff. I doubt any gear changes will change that, but I can look more into it tomorrow. That was the information I was really looking for. I will also need to look into the feasibility of keeping aftermath up with regain since Occult Acumen won't be enough on its own.

Spoiler: show

Assuming the BLM used oneiros rope for enhanced Occult Acumen, they BLM would need to cast over 4000 mp worth of spells to get the lowest level of aftermath. Ignoring if it is possible to spend that much mp in the 3 minutes aftermath lasts, refresh2, relic brd, cor, and sublimation can't even provide half that MP in 3 minutes. The only option would be regain, which a cor, sch and earring could provide in 3 minutes.

Seems I failed at adding it up, getting different numbers myself now as well. Will fix/edit the original tomorrow evening.

Far as TP goes, it's ~2800MP w/ Oneiros, 4000 without - and remember store-tp counts, so consider rose strap - though w/ atmacites or temps it's pretty easy to keep TP up if you try. Outside of abyssea/void though, it's hard to give up the pdt of earth staff anyways (read: legion) and having 8 magians can help you out there.

[sydok]

Seems I failed at adding it up, getting different numbers myself now as well. Will fix/edit the original tomorrow evening.

Far as TP goes, it's ~2800MP w/ Oneiros, 4000 without - and remember store-tp counts, so consider rose strap - though w/ atmacites or temps it's pretty easy to keep TP up if you try. Outside of abyssea/void though, it's hard to give up the pdt of earth staff anyways (read: legion) and having 8 magians can help you out there.

I missed the second trait BLM gets at 95 when I looked at occult acumen. I wouldn't be worried about keeping up aftermath in voidwatch, a wing plus Chrysopoeia Torque should give you max aftermath at the start of each fight. I'm just looking for a way to make aftermath feasible in other content if the upcoming changes truly help BLM. I still have major doubts about how much they will accomplish. Without a gimmick similar to some bosses in neo salvage, where using different damage types on a mob is beneficial, I don't see BLM making a strong return.

[fantasticdan]

Alright, but no

Go out and document any sort of predictable usage pattern at an HP greater than 25%

This has already been documented in the past, but typical mobs (at 100-51%, or 100-26%?) will automatically use a TP move upon reaching 300tp (or upon getting hit/landing a hit, if they're already at 300tp from regain/being uncharmed as a bst pet/whatever). I went out and did a quick test on puks to make sure I wasn't crazy, and they never withheld TP at 300.

Spoiler: show

I have no reason to think puks function differently than normal mobs (apart from getting 100 tp from same day elemental spells, and regain on wind/light day), but I'll test again with different mobs later with charm when I have time. I'm pretty sure I've even tested it myself years ago thou.

[Spira]

this i remember from toying with djinn back before they nerfed them to not always explode. they'd all blow within 3 casts of magic. never anything more.

[Slycer]

This has already been documented in the past, but typical mobs (at 100-51%, or 100-26%?) will automatically use a TP move upon reaching 300tp (or upon getting hit/landing a hit, if they're already at 300tp from regain/being uncharmed as a bst pet/whatever). I went out and did a quick test on puks to make sure I wasn't crazy, and they never withheld TP at 300.

To take this a step further, I remember reading somewhere (but I don't know where, and I never saw the testing behind this), that once the mob hits 50%, but before it hits 26%, it will automatically use TP moves if it reaches 200 TP (or randomly use them in the 100-199 TP range, if it decides to). Makes sense intuitively, given the automatic usage at 300 TP from 51% to 100% and the automatic usage at 100 TP at 25% and below.

[Dotsudoku]

I have no reason to think puks function differently than normal mobs (apart from getting 100 tp from same day elemental spells, and regain on wind/light day), but I'll test again with different mobs later with charm when I have time. I'm pretty sure I've even tested it myself years ago thou.

You have no reason to think puks function differently, other than the massive difference in their TP acquisition under certain circumstances. Gotcha.

Edit: and what you're saying now isn't in any way what you said earlier

[Tachi]

To take this a step further, I remember reading somewhere (but I don't know where, and I never saw the testing behind this), that once the mob hits 50%, but before it hits 26%, it will automatically use TP moves if it reaches 200 TP (or randomly use them in the 100-199 TP range, if it decides to). Makes sense intuitively, given the automatic usage at 300 TP from 51% to 100% and the automatic usage at 100 TP at 25% and below.

This is not the case.

Spoiler: show

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...114_200335.png

[Warusha]

@Radec Is it not a feasible play style in the near future to /drk and melee with mythic? The first problem in my mind is uncapped PDT and major accuracy issues. With perfect augments on PDT gear you can hit 39% during day, and with defending ring you can hit 43% during day. Twilight, Darkness Earring X2, Dark Ring X2, Spurrina Gages, Plumb, Lefay, Umbra. Accuracy issues can best be handled by sole sushi +1. Without /sch or /rdm you won't need to carry a cure set, enhancing set, stoneskin pieces - which can be converted into more accuracy pieces as well.

This may be a waste of my time and yours, and I may be ridiculed for the idea, but I would suggest the following inventory slots:

Bag:
Linkpearl

Laevateinn
Oneiros Grip
Erlene's Notebook/ Ombre Tathlum

Head: Spurrina/ Zelus/ Nares/ Striga/ Adhara/ Fea’s/ Morri+1

Neck: Twilight Torque/ Saevus/ Orunmila Torque/ Aesir/ Moepapa/ Enfeebling/ Chrysopeia/ Ancient Torque/ Shadow Gorget

Ear: Moonshade(refresh, macc)/ DarknessX2/ Novio/ Strophadic(or Hecate's)/ Ghillie+1/Brutal/Aquilo’s Pearl/ Hirudinea

Body: Adhara/ Eirene’s/ Morri +1/ Nares/ Shedir

Hands: Spurrina/ Repartie/ Morri+1/ Serpentes/Zenith +1(I use this as enmity down set piece -6 Enmity +5 INT)/ Vampiric(or Avesta)/ Fea’s

Finger: Aife’s Annulet/ IcesoulX2(maybe Galdr)/ Dark/ Defending/ Rajas/ Excelsis/ Zodiac/ Mars’s

Back: Algidus/ Swith +1/ Umbra/ Taubran/ Twilight/ Merciful Cape

Waist: Maniacus/ Othila/ Casso/ Oneiros Rope/ Wanion/ Ninurta’s

Legs: Akasha/ Rubeus/ Spurrina/ Fea’s/ Lefay/ Morri+1/ Nares

Feet: Chelona +1/ Morri+1/ Vampiric(or Fea's)/ Herald's/ Spurrina/ Plumb

Which totals 76 inventory, leaving room for meds, obis, and the ability to quickly throw in a couple mdmg or macc staves if macc or meleeing are issues.

MDT is slightly undercapped, but the amount of high INT+ in all gear slots should help minimize this issue. Sets accommodated for are tp, vidohunir, shattersoul, -dt, standard elemental, high macc elemental, low enmity elemental, day elemental, drain/aspir, dark skill, enfeebling, fastcast(41% or 66% elemental), 8 refresh(7 sometimes), 2 regen. The tp set hidden in there has about 650 accuracy with food, and capped haste. The 10-hit isn't great but it helps supplement occult accumen.

I'm not suggesting we all go out and solo like this, but it gives BLM a role to play in current alliance endgame.

For instance, BLM is a well deserved spot in Legion Hall of An, and it does very well in Muru on Alicorn- my Avg T5 spell does around 3k, which is probably about 1k less than a WAR or DRK avg ws.

Perhaps I'm grasping at straws, but I'm tired of coming SCH/BLM to everything QQ

1/3 of the way complete with mythic ^^

[Slycer]

This is not the case.

What are you showing in the SS? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at. Thanks in advance, btw, I was never really sure that it was true and I was leaning against it, but it seemed to fit with what fantasticdan said above.

[TummieGaruda]

To take this a step further, I remember reading somewhere (but I don't know where, and I never saw the testing behind this), that once the mob hits 50%, but before it hits 26%, it will automatically use TP moves if it reaches 200 TP (or randomly use them in the 100-199 TP range, if it decides to). Makes sense intuitively, given the automatic usage at 300 TP from 51% to 100% and the automatic usage at 100 TP at 25% and below.

So what it sounds like is a combination of all theories where:

- The required TP to use a TP move has a specific range based on HP and it can randomly use it within that range but will execute automatically when it hits the top end:
If the mobs HP is between 51 and 100%, then it will use TP randomly when it's TP is between 200 and 299%. It will automatically use TP at 300%
If the mobs HP is between 26 and 50%, then it will use TP randomly when it's TP is between 100 and 199%. It will automatically use TP at 200%
If the mobs HP is between 1 and 25%, then it will use TP at 100%

[Dotsudoku]

None other than the last have been proven

[Ophannus]

^ Pretty much why in the dunes or the jungle when you were fighting an IT++ Goblin and were hitting for single digits it would one shot your party if it dropped a gob bomb since dropped bombs usually do 150-200% more damage, in addition to that, if y DAMAGE VARIES WITH TP YO

[Kincard]

Dropped gob bombs have their damage based on their remaining HP (Possible the TP too but that's not really worth testing).

[fantasticdan]

So what it sounds like is a combination of all theories where:

- The required TP to use a TP move has a specific range based on HP and it can randomly use it within that range but will execute automatically when it hits the top end:
If the mobs HP is between 51 and 100%, then it will use TP randomly when it's TP is between 200 and 299%. It will automatically use TP at 300%
If the mobs HP is between 26 and 50%, then it will use TP randomly when it's TP is between 100 and 199%. It will automatically use TP at 200%
If the mobs HP is between 1 and 25%, then it will use TP at 100%

The bolded is definitely not true, tested it on the puks before I left.

None other than the last have been proven

It has been via charm back in the day, in fact now I'm positive I checked it myself, back when toau came out and I was checking tp feed/subtle blow on blu spells. I'll make some screenshots in a bit, I don't know why I'm bothering thou.