Dev Tracker: Discussion (Old)

[Slycer]

Slycer probably meant Overdrive, though I admit that I don't know how Overdrive affects maneuvers. Perhaps it increases the stats given from maneuvers used during Overdrive?

<-- Not a PUP, etc.

Definitely says overload, but the overall translation might have been off.

オートマトンの場合、安易にステータスを上げていくと今度はオーバーロードしやすくなるなどの側面もあるので、そういった点も留意しつつ、バランスを見ていきます。

bold/underline part = overload. I think they were actually saying that you may overload easily while trying to boost the stats, so they will look into adjusting (not that overloading will boost the stats). Does that make more sense?

[Chamaan]

I thought that maybe he meant Overdrive for a second too, but that didn't make any sense. It doesn't do anything to Maneuver stat boosts, not that I recall. Unless it does something that's never been tested to magic formulas. Old as Pup is now, Overdrive testing has never really been done to any great extent. It gives a half-decent bonus to melee/ranged damage from the puppet, in addition to the attack speed and No Overload Maneuvers (you still build burden, just won't Overload).

Only thing that I think Overdrive might do is a MAB and MAcc bonus. I used to pop it pretty much only when I wanted to make sure I didn't bust triple Ice. Damage from spells was always high, but I always contributed that to being on triple Ice with proper attachments. My account's deactivated right now or I'd hop on the test server and try some stuff out. =\

edit:

bold/underline part = overload. I think they were actually saying that you may overload easily while trying to boost the stats, so they will look into adjusting (not that overloading will boost the stats). Does that make more sense?

That actually does make sense if you're always wanting to be on 3x Ice to maximize nuke damage. Keeping the same maneuver up indefinitely is pretty hard unless you're holding a Kenkonken, even with AF hands/Emp body/Buffon collar. It'd be nice to see an adjustment to burden from stacking elements.

[Slycer]

I edited my post probably like 5 times while you were typing that, I think it makes sense now. Pretty sure they were just saying generally that while you can increase stats on the automaton, it's easy to Overload while doing so and they will take that into account when balancing this adjustment.

[Byrthnoth]

I thought that maybe he meant Overdrive for a second too, but that didn't make any sense. It doesn't do anything to Maneuver stat boosts, not that I recall. Unless it does something that's never been tested to magic formulas. Old as Pup is now, Overdrive testing has never really been done to any great extent. It gives a half-decent bonus to melee/ranged damage from the puppet, in addition to the attack speed and No Overload Maneuvers (you still build burden, just won't Overload).

Only thing that I think Overdrive might do is a MAB and MAcc bonus. I used to pop it pretty much only when I wanted to make sure I didn't bust triple Ice. Damage from spells was always high, but I always contributed that to being on triple Ice with proper attachments. My account's deactivated right now or I'd hop on the test server and try some stuff out. =\

edit:
That actually does make sense if you're always wanting to be on 3x Ice to maximize nuke damage. Keeping the same maneuver up indefinitely is pretty hard unless you're holding a Kenkonken, even with AF hands/Emp body/Buffon collar. It'd be nice to see an adjustment to burden from stacking elements.

I wish there was more PUP testing out there and that BG hadn't been so vehemently anti-PUP post-release that all the PUP testing was driven to other forums. Oh well, them's the breaks.

I just feel like there are a lot of unknowns about PUP in general.

[Cairthenn]

Sylow wants to make a Kenkonken, maybe we'll have a shot!

[Chamaan]

Thanks Slycer, that makes a lot more sense now.

And yeah, Pup's kind of the voodoo job. Never recovered from that initial stigma (it WAS pretty shit on release admittedly) and gained a lot of less than intelligent supporters. Guys that have been playing the job for a long time know a lot of what works but don't know the exact barebones numbers on why.

[fantasticdan]

I wish there was more PUP testing out there and that BG hadn't been so vehemently anti-PUP post-release that all the PUP testing was driven to other forums. Oh well, them's the breaks.

I just feel like there are a lot of unknowns about PUP in general.

Besides whatever's wrong with stringing pummel, what needs to be tested?

[Chamaan]

Stuff to do with the puppet mostly. I'm sure there are some other pups I could bang heads with and come up with a pretty good sized Christmas list of interesting research topics. Off the top of my head:

-The exact stat/tp modifiers on automaton WS. Magic Mortar (because it was broken for a while) and Cannibal Blade (because it's easy) are the only ones that have much testing on beyond Maneuver/AI testing.

-The ACTUAL affects of Overdrive on magic. Or really just Overdrive testing in general.

-The probability of Overload when breaking the burden threshold. Crossing the threshold doesn't guarantee an overload. There's only a chance of it. Specifically I'd like to know if there is a rise in Overload chance the further above the threshold you are, though I would suspect that any increase that does exist is statistically insignificant since it seems to be high no matter what (but eyeballs are eyeballs).

-Stuff for the attachments, like the actual performance bonuses on Optical Fiber (what attachments are not affected, is it more efficient to use a light maneuver or just a second of the same element).

-Tact Processor. Stands out from regular attachment testing because this thing's the goddamn Pandora's box of pup. They gave an explanation on the OF of what it does but that just raised more questions about how the puppet's AI behaves.

I mean random testing does get done from time to time. pancakesandsex did some testing on pet haste caps using pup a month or so ago, which was pretty damned huge regarding gear sets for pup.

[Byrthnoth]

Probably everything. I mean, we only realized that Overdrive gives 25% Haste a few months ago. SE loves sticking less obvious buffs in, and then there's the whole mess of Automaton AI that things could be affecting. Very few PUP JAs have their Enmity values worked out. We don't know how Automaton damage really works (their base damage is both STR and DEX modded). We don't really know how most of the WS mods work. The attachments are poorly understood (except the ones SE has explained to us). The list goes on...

If PUP had been a solid job from release, we would know all of these things.

[Hitou]

Official translation is up.

Greetings,

Byrth's Avatar
Quote Originally Posted by Byrth View Post
Desperate Blows currently only applies to 2-handed weapons. Would Last Resort post-update still only give 2-handed weapon Haste, or would 1-handed jobs also be able to benefit from it?
Currently, the development team plans to have the proposed Last Resort haste benefit only apply to two-handed weapons. The reason being is there are already a number of benefits that single-handed weapons posses such as dual wield, martial arts, etc.

We also wanted to share some additional inquiries about the battle system adjustments:

What's going to happen with hand-to-hand weapons?
Categorically hand-to-hand weapons fall under the single-handed weapon classification; however, the stats for hand-to-hand weapons are quite different from that of swords, which are literally held in just one hand, and they will not be treated the same. We will be separating hand-to-hand weapons from this balance adjustment and making changes that fit more in line with the weapon.

Will the elemental magic adjustments apply to automatons as well?
Yes, we will be applying the elemental magic adjustments to automatons as well. Though, by simply raising the stats for automatons there will be aspects that cause the automaton to overload easier and such, so we will be keeping these points in mind and looking at balance.

Lastly, we understand that some of you wish to be able to increase the number of merit weapon skills that can be fully upgraded, but this is something that we discussed previously. Instead of making it so you can get everything, we're thinking about making it so there will be benefits without having to max out a category, which will open up the choices a bit more.

Makes as little sense regarding PUP as Slycer's translation. Also, we can't have more than 3 fully buffed merit WS cause that'd be a nice thing. And we can't have nice things.

[Sho]

They should let us max at least 4 merit abilities. That way we could max 3, and put 1~2 into about 4 more.

[Podginator]

In regards to the pup statement, I think they're saying they're not going to increase the INT of an automaton, since burden is calculated by Master stat - Automaton Stat. If they were to increase automatons int they would also increase the rate at which they overload due to ice maneuvers.

I might be wrong about that, however.

[Alkar]

In regards to the pup statement, I think they're saying they're not going to increase the INT of an automaton, since burden is calculated by Master stat - Pup. If they were to increase automatons int they would also increase the rate at which they overload due to ice maneuvers.

I might be wrong about that, however.

I'm pretty sure that's what they're talking about as well.

[Fwahm]

I'm kind of worried how the elemental magic adjustment will affect enemies. Not only is it a significant boost even at its worst, its a very large boost at high dINT values, so I'm worried that it'll increase mob elemental magic by a great degree. The strongest HNMs probably have INT scores between 120-150, and that's a LOT higher than what most melees usually fight in. Is anyone able to ask if it's going to apply to enemies?

[Buffy]

Kirin's INT is like 150, and he's a 10 year old mob. http://killingifrit.com/forums/topic/177743-kirins-int/ Wouldn't be surprised if some legion mobs were over 200. That's pure speculation on my part, as I've never even entered Legion.

[Cliron]

Enemy magic damage becoming a possible issue during fights? A great prelude to Runic Knight me thinks.

[Obsidian]

Hand-to-hand gets hosed. That blows.

[Kincard]

If they make it apply to monster nukes too that'll certainly make ADL's -ga IV spam a lot more fun.

By fun I mean really fucking stupid, of course.

[dasva]

As long as the elemental magic adjustment stays as currently stated I don't see much concern with letting it apply to mobs. I mean how many T1-5 single target spells are all that scary right now?

[Obsidian]

As long as the elemental magic adjustment stays as currently stated I don't see much concern with letting it apply to mobs. I mean how many T1-5 single target spells are all that scary right now?

SSR2 bosses.