Mists of Pandaria Discussion Thread

[Mortilox]

No random WTF thread so I'll post here, found this gem on EU forums. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5847924838

After 2 weeks of raiding, we haven't killed the Stone Guards yet.
This is not a problem in tanking position, low dps or bad healing. Its a gear only problem.

[Plow]

No random WTF thread so I'll post here, found this gem on EU forums. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5847924838

I actually do agree that normals may be a bit overtuned. Most guilds are not going to have a chance at MSV even, let alone heart of fear, until they're near the ilvl that the normals reward.

I mean, that dude is 470 and actually has 4 drops from LFR which makes his crying even more pathetic, but it's been clear from the start that even well above average guilds aren't touching these enrage timers until well geared, only the best are making it through.


Meanwhile now that we're fairly geared we ended up deciding to just burn through the last 3 MV on normal this week for more time in heart, and pushed elegon below 20% before the final phase lol.

10 second burn phase lmao.

He is right about one thing, though-- any claims of LFR not being required are fucking retarded. I don't even want to think about people's reactions in my group if someone got on for a tuesday night raid and hadn't done all of LFR + sha yet.

[The Stig]

I admit that the Stone Guard seems overly complicated for a first boss. Even I don't truely understand how the mechanics work yet (I haven't actually read up on it at all, just got told not to DPS when the bar is full or when tanking, to taunt X kitty and drag it out of range). Although the boss does not alternate phases at all, the fact it's the same phase throughout the whole fight with about 3-5 (that I can count, sort of. Might be over or under guessing) mechanics followed by shit everywhere on the floor and massive damage, your average player may have hard time grasping it all.

Stone Guard is a rightful name for this too. With all the usual basic (more or less) mechanics in place, if you can't kill it, you simply don't deserve to advance further.

Still don't get why people are crying about "needing to do LFR" though. It's like crying about having to do heroic dungeons to get into the first raid tier. Another stepping stone was squeezed in, that's all.

[Plow]

I admit that the Stone Guard seems overly complicated for a first boss. Even I don't truely understand how the mechanics work yet (I haven't actually read up on it at all, just got told not to DPS when the bar is full or when tanking, to taunt X kitty and drag it out of range). Although the boss does not alternate phases at all, the fact it's the same phase throughout the whole fight with about 3-5 (that I can count, sort of. Might be over or under guessing) mechanics followed by shit everywhere on the floor and massive damage, your average player may have hard time grasping it all.

Stone Guard is a rightful name for this too. With all the usual basic (more or less) mechanics in place, if you can't kill it, you simply don't deserve to advance further.

Still don't get why people are crying about "needing to do LFR" though. It's like crying about having to do heroic dungeons to get into the first raid tier. Another stepping stone was squeezed in, that's all.

It's not even like a "stepping stone," though, it's just more painful shit you have to do with a whole bunch of random people every week.

The issue people have is mostly just that blizz has tried their damnedest from the start to sell it as something that's not "required," when the fact of the matter is that it is.

There's also the intense effects of MORE rng constantly being added in terms of who can compete for the top spots. I've gotten a bis tank belt (that's a MASSIVE upgrade over anything else available) and a weapon that easily accounts for 100 arena rating (and we're not even taking shit remotely seriously, I'm just talking about an instant jump on our joke team from 1550 to 1650+ mmr, within like 5 games the first time I used it) from charms alone.

If I'd had even remotely decent LFR or Sha luck (gotten 1 piece between the 2 that affects pve, lfr bracers), combined with the luck I've had on just straight normal boss drops, the advantage my entire guild would have over anything else on the server would be just plain silly.

Not to mention if all the str dps gear that I've gotten; to use on the 1 fight in the entire tier (and only on normal, not heroic) I get to dps on... had been gear for our actual dps or healers instead, we'd probably have gotten gara a week earlier and been pushing heroic elegon hard this week.


No big deal, right?

We'd be a 9 hour guild in 2nd place on the 6th best U.S. server instead of 3rd, and the guys right on our ass wouldn't have a chance to pass us this weekend.

[Korialstrasz]

I can't help but find the tile rooms in Guo Lai Halls immensely amusing to sit and watch sometimes. On a busy server like this, you can pretty much go down there at prime time for dailies and watch the bodies pile up from the people that flail across the tiles, only to die somewhere in the middle.

Sometimes I /clap for the ones that make it. Maybe I cheer them on with a "You can do it! I believe in you!". But I always laugh from the ones that have no idea and die.

[Ezek]

I just Divine Shield and rocket boots through it lol, zero fucks given.

[The Stig]

Guo Lai Halls ... lololololol. Never been there/noticed it before until I read it here. I swear it's an easter egg/hidden joke inside Blizzard. Switch the letters around and in cantonese it's "Luo Gai" which basically means "old geezer". Switch the words around to Gai Luo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gweilo) and although it's a tiny bit off, it basically means foreigner; apparently really offensive to none chinese people. Not sure why, it's just a common word to reference a group of people to instantly know what you're talking about. Kinda like Japanese's Gaijin, which means basically the same.

I clashed with one Irish Chinese person about this word. He called me racist. I told him I'm old fashioned. (Apparently it's hip to say "sai yan" instead, meaning westerner). How none chinese people or even chinese people built up that word to be offensive I do not know. I don't think I can ever take offense to a term used to refer to me in another language if I didn't actually understand it lol

---

Plow, I'm unsure how to reply to your post. I am not disagreeing with you about the overtune-ness of it, but you state LFR appears to be required.

Would you agree it's "required" only if you're in a guild that plans to push out clears and into heroic mode straight off the bat?
This kind of chat and the psychology of MMO players/system really interests me. This is why I want to continue discussion.

My stance has the following criteria:

1. LFR is helpful (or required, depending on house rules) if you're in a good guild with good communication and co-ordination to push out clears easy; i.e. you've got the quality of people to make use of epics to help push out a win -- afterall, world first guilds and competent guilds such as yourselves seem to have little to no problem in complete blues or lower; contrast to my guild where the main tank is in a fucking green helm and seems to do nothing to improve his character (ok so he's got 2 kids, but still ... buy an ilvl 450 one? lol. Then again he crafted the 476 body ... so ... i dunno, and a warlock constantly bitches about needing to replace http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/89232 but yet spends all his free time levelling alts/pet battling)

2. In the case of the topic Mortilox linked, the guy and his group really seems helpless. And as some people in the topic pointed out, it does seem to be a L2P issue. Until everyone in his guild is kitted out beyond heroic level, the kill is entirely dependable on gear of the following (approx) ratio - 75% gear : 15% skill : 10% luck ; whereas people like yourselves seem to be nicely in the 25% gear : 70% skill : 5% luck ratio

3. I understand when you said:

but it's been clear from the start that even well above average guilds aren't touching these enrage timers until well geared, only the best are making it through.

Will make LFR mandatory, but then my mind resorts back to the argument that it only becomes mandatory at that point when you are trying to push for a kill. So in this regard I completely understand the frustration from people such as you, as I missed reading that the first time (the quote), so I guess my negative stance towards the people saying it's mandatory are mainly towards the casual/scrub crowd who really have not much in a hope to clear something until they over gear for it.

There seems to be a very very very high sense of entitlement for the majority of the WoW population. This is a point of fascination to me and it's very interesting to observe and chat with mentally stable (people on BG) here about it.

EDIT: Oohhhh. that thread grew by 10 pages. Something to do this afternoon lol

EDIT2: if I am unknowingly making your head hurt because I am missing a point somewhere, do let me know. I don't think I missed or misunderstood anything.

---

Are we allowed FFXI discussions still? Trying to think if I ever thought I was entitled to do Dynamis/Sky/Sea if I didn't get my ass off the seat and try form a good team and put some effort into doing it. I don't believe back in 2005~2006~2007 did I ever read someone whining if they cannot do either of the 3, they just accepted that it's difficult and extremely rewarding if completed. Perhaps someone did whine and were quickly shot down. But still, I suppose the attitudes are vastly different given the time and game and generation of people.

Just a thought.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Given that this whole forum started out as a FFXI board, yes, I believe it's still okay to use it in discussions. We even occasionally use it in the political boards. Lots of good analogies. It never fails to surprise me how much I learned in FFXI (and to a lesser extent EVE Online) that has had important RL implications.

Also, how the fuck do you get the chests in Guo Lai? I rarely get dailies leading there, but for a while I checked it anyway... and have never seen a chest. I have like 5 keys now, taking up bag space because hurr durr get rid of keyring and not keys

[Ksandra]

can always discuss wow/ffxi as long as it's not retarded wow VS ffxi.


Also:


FUCK MOP


I has sad like every five quests. Blizzard all trying to be Pixar or some shit.

[Korialstrasz]

Also, how the fuck do you get the chests in Guo Lai? I rarely get dailies leading there, but for a while I checked it anyway... and have never seen a chest. I have like 5 keys now, taking up bag space because hurr durr get rid of keyring and not keys

Where you can go and how easily you can get there is dependent on rep and progression through the Golden Lotus story line. Early on you either need quests to get past the doors, or die and rez on the other side. At exalted everything is open and you can simply run right through and get to everywhere easily. There are multiple phases for most of the rooms, but from what I understand the chests are shared across them all.

[Plow]

Plow, I'm unsure how to reply to your post. I am not disagreeing with you about the overtune-ness of it, but you state LFR appears to be required.

Would you agree it's "required" only if you're in a guild that plans to push out clears and into heroic mode straight off the bat?

To put it all really simply: I believe it's required if you're trying to be competitive.

Be that competing for world first, or competing for server 20th on the 100th best server in the U.S.

This was less so in DS at least until heroics. With enrage timers as they are in panda, though, a few drops amongst your raid can and will cost people weeks without kills.

[SamanosukeShiva]

wow 1st boss heroic on heart of fear is insanely hard, on another level. Not even paragon down it yet lol. Bravo blizz, we need more bosses like this.

[Aravil]

Don't raids reset on Wednesday for EU?

[Mortilox]

Don't raids reset on Wednesday for EU?

ya at 8-9 GMT. But right now all EU realms are under maintenance.

[Korialstrasz]

Oh man, so you guys will get to experience the joy that is Heart of Fear LFR. Have fun with that

[Plow]

dude


dude.

seriously, fuck that shit


I've spent a combined 2-3 hours in queue for heart LFR as tank, gotten probably 20 total pops... EVERY SINGLE ONE 2/3 dead

6+ hours apart from the first one, then giving up after a couple hours, doing msv and then raiding for 3 hours, trying again through 2 queues, STILL 2/3

[The Stig]

What's wrong with Garalon?

Seems easy enough. In fact it looks harder for healers more than anything else lol

I don't think i got the ilvl to go LFR HoF yet.

[Thuronn]

Yeah I'm really confused about the Garalon trouble.

I got into a 2/3 dead and went in anyways. We wiped 1 time and the proceeded to 1 shot it. I heard people saying stuff like "WORLD FIRST RF Garalon!". At first I laughed at it... but maybe it really was true, it was right as the servers came up.

[Mortilox]

Took my group 2 attempts, first wipe was due to a ninja pull and before anyone could explain.

70k HPS as holy priest, we are far too good for that boss lol

[Correction]

Garalon's difficulty is definitely oversold, but you need experienced kiters and a properly coordinated pull. Not something you can always get out of LFR given the propensity for trigger-happy idiots to pull Feng or Gara'jal in a way that locks out healers and that maybe 1-2 out of 25 people can consistently do the dance on Will of the Emperor. The words 'execution threshold' means nothing to most people.