Random Question Thread: Fuck it.

[pchan]

//TP
gearset[0]="ragnarok 99";gearset[1]="hagneia";
gearset[2]="bale +2";gearset[3]="ganesha";gearset[4]="brutal";gearset[5]="bale";
gearset[6]="adaman";gearset[7]="bale +2";gearset[8]="rajas";gearset[9]="tyrant";
gearset[10]="atheling";gearset[11]="goading";gearset[12]="bale +2";gearset[13]="ace";

// WS
wstype="resolution";
wsset[0]="ragnarok 99";wsset[1]="fracas";
wsset[2]="mekira-oto";wsset[3]="gorget";wsset[4]="brutal";wsset[5]="moonshade att/tpbonus";
wsset[6]="phorcys";wsset[7]="phorcys";wsset[8]="rajas";wsset[9]="pyrosoul";
wsset[10]="atheling";wsset[11]="elemental";wsset[12]="bale +2";wsset[13]="bale +2";

alos I use /sam as explained in the thread. You didn't use the same buff, for instance you got endark on when enfire is always better, ODD is <= 18%, boost dex should be done with 500 skill, etc. So in the end you don't use the same buff but find 13% more damage, big deal !

[Jem]

You never stipulated Enfire in your buffs (Taken from opening post, you may have changed buffs later. I account for both it being on and off anyway)

*berserk+agressor if /war or war main, hasso if 2Handed DD /sam or sam main
*red curry bun as food
*a maxed BRD for buffs (daurdabla 99 for 4 songs all overwritten with the level 99 relic horn) casting songs with the full AF3+2 bonus : I use minuet 4 and 5 (that's about 150 attack) and 2xmarch, so I'm getting 10 str and 10 dex bonus.
*boostdex ( +25 dex)
*haste, dia 2.

If Enfire is always better, it only increases the DRK DPS not decreases (it's worse in the below but I left Summoning Skill at 450 as I don't know a realistic number other than it's higher than that.). If Enfire isn't being used then of course the DRK will use Endark.

Boost DEX being done with 500 skill would also only increase the DPS from my previous post too if the extra DEX did anything (Note that switching to 500 Enhancing in this scenario does nothing due to capped dDEX already).



Anyway your gear (questionable as it overshoots haste by a lot) 721 DPS. Note that toggling Endark off and Enfire on changes it to 720 DPS

Spoiler: show

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...ps8a7e16c5.png
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...ps5cca803f.png

Ccl's gear modded to suit SAM sub - 783 DPS (i.e. More inline with what a DRK should use). Toggling Endark off and Enfire on results in 782 DPS.

Spoiler: show

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...ps024c12f9.png
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psf6c00f9d.png

I've changed the ODD to 18% in both. Changed Enhancing to 500 (which does nothing to the numbers). Souleater unused for both.


And yes it is a 'Big Deal' because it changes Ragna from dead last in your calculations to second best behind Koga (Outright best if Souleater useage is allowed). None of this different buffs crap, it's all above and matches what you used (Toggle Endark/Enfire as applicable). That is kind of a big deal when you're saying the weapon with the second highest DPS is garbage. It's completely misleading.

You're essentially saying 'Ragna DRK sucks if they gear stupidly and don't use the appropriate buffs' (i.e. not using Endark if there's no Enfire). And that's gonna be true for any job/weapon.


EDIT: I don't care whether Ragna is or is not the best weapon in game for the record. I care that you are misrepresenting it and then trying to pass off that information as fact.

I personally far prefer my Apoc. It's less DPS than the best weapons in the game and it's survivability benefits are nowhere near as beneficial as what they once were. It's still my favourite weapon though as it's more fun for me personally. It's not about the damage for me and I would pick Apoc over Ragna without a second thought if I could only keep one.

Oh also, I got Ragna when it was bad knowing full well it was bad. So for me to be a Ragna fanboy when I got it before it was good is laughable.

[ccl]

can use Carbonara /sam for fodder and still use duplus, but that's going to far and might not be the best when lr down.

Is ifrit enfire never resisted/constant dmg /hit or does it decay ?

[Jem]

It's constant. I'm not debating whether he's right that it's always better because it probably is tbh (I left it at 450 Summoning Skill which I know can easily be bettered).

It isn't really relevant here though because if it's in-play the DRK's figures should go up. If it isn't, we use Endark. Either way I haven't overestimated DRK's DPS in the above, it's only going to be an underestimate (since attack is capped so it's purely add effect damage)

EDIT: Endark is probably better on tougher content where the extra Attack does something which it obviously doesn't against Fodder.

[ccl]

Yeah I agree with you, was just wondering how it work, only use I ever saw for smn is PD/Shock Squall and EA/Scherzo.

[Seol]

What'd be the ideal Kaustra set? I started a dark elemental dmg magian staff back when comet/meteor were announced and put it on hold after finding out Meteor was non-elemental. Anyway It's almost at geodes stage and I figured I might as well just finish it, what other uses does it have other than Kaustra/Comet/Impact/Aspirs/Drains?

[Yugl]

What'd be the ideal Kaustra set? I started a dark elemental dmg magian staff back when comet/meteor were announced and put it on hold after finding out Meteor was non-elemental. Anyway It's almost at geodes stage and I figured I might as well just finish it, what other uses does it have other than Kaustra/Comet/Impact/Aspirs/Drains?

You can technically use that for sleeps if you don't need the magic accuracy, but do want the cast reduction (Mass Crowd Control).

Here is Sawtelle's set (He used the BG-Wiki formula, so hopefully this is accurate).

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/267421

[Taim Meich]

What'd be the ideal Kaustra set? I started a dark elemental dmg magian staff back when comet/meteor were announced and put it on hold after finding out Meteor was non-elemental. Anyway It's almost at geodes stage and I figured I might as well just finish it, what other uses does it have other than Kaustra/Comet/Impact/Aspirs/Drains?

The way it depends so much on INT makes it very similar to Helix, since the V constant is much lower than the dint constant, so you can gear for it basically exactly the same as with Noctohelix. The only other thing to consider would be the duration, which increases roughly by 1 tick every 11 skill, that you may want to have into consideration, too.

[Terravcota]

Does nin really do that much more white damage than war when you factor in retaliation? The difference in ws is huge.

For war/nin to have 175 gkt skill for koki, you'd need to have both bushinomimi and that obscure ring from dynamis unless I'm missing something. The event gkt also hasn't been available for years, so you can't set up any post aby dual-box accounts to do it. Seems impractical to say the least.

Event great katanas are available every year at Feast of Swords - you actually have to play the event to get it, though, unlike the first (? couple?) years where they would give you a Wooden Katana. Got mine for my proc mule last spring.

[Mercilessturtle]

Against a mob with massive crit rate reduction and where Acc matters which gives a huge advantage to the Ragna. Nobody is saying Ragna WAR > Ukon WAR under normal circumstances.

A lot of people do say that, which is why you have people here asking "should I just do rag for my war since I hear its best?". Even in the case of those huge advantages for ragnarok, it still only breaks even with ukon. Yeah, ragnarok is a big deal for drk, but there's definitely a lot of confused people thinking its good for war too.

[Taint]

A lot of people do say that, which is why you have people here asking "should I just do rag for my war since I hear its best?". Even in the case of those huge advantages for ragnarok, it still only breaks even with ukon. Yeah, ragnarok is a big deal for drk, but there's definitely a lot of confused people thinking its good for war too.

Ummmm Rag is good for WAR, there is one weapon that trumphs it, 99Ukon and situationally Rag is better. 99Rag is also much easier to make then 99Ukon.

[Mercilessturtle]

See?

[Byrthnoth]

99 Rag doesn't beat a 99 Ukon for WAR unless you're in one of these two situations:
1) MS is up
2) You're fighting monsters that have -Crit Rate with a ton of Attack buffs.

I bet a 99 Rag would beat a 90 Ukon in more places than that, but if you're comparing equal level weapons I think that's pretty much how it shakes out. They're also approximately the same price to make on my server.

[Churchill]

Fear the Ukon, ladies.

[Slycer]

You can technically use that for sleeps if you don't need the magic accuracy, but do want the cast reduction (Mass Crowd Control).

Here is Sawtelle's set (He used the BG-Wiki formula, so hopefully this is accurate).

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/267421

Most of that set makes sense, but Wizzan Grip is most certainly a better choice than Elder's Grip. Ombre Tathlum possibly better than Memoria Sachet.

[Jem]

It's hardly like he said 99 Ragna beats 99 Ukon all the time, he said situationally which is true with the situations being very few. I guess 95 Ukon and 99 Brav will also beat it at times so 99 Ukon isn't the only weapon that trumps it. Anyone who think Ragna 99 WAR > Ukon 99 WAR in the majority of situations is just plain wrong and it will be largely down to bandwagon Ragnas/less Ukon 99's around if that's a common opinion.

I haven't run the numbers for 90 Ukon versus 99 Rag although the guy in my LS who that applies to uses Ragna WAR for all events I've done with him (which is generally ADL runs). Not sure if it's because his Ragna is newer or if he rates it more.

Easier to get is going to vary by server. They cost about the same here (165-175m). Obviously if you get your marrows for free from LS then it's going to be a lot cheaper though (as you don't generally hear of people getting 95/99 Ukon stages for free). Ragnas are probably more popular as they 'seem' easier even when the cost is the same due to farming your own currency, getting LS marrows etc. That probably wrongly plays into the perception of being easier to 99 (unless you get free Marrows as mentioned).

Ragna is probably overrated and Ukon is probably slightly underrated in comparison (Underrated and Ukon in the same sentence just seems wrong...). That doesn't change the fact that they are both pretty damn beastly in the right hands.

[Taint]

I was responding to "a lot of confused people thinking its good for war too." When it is better then "good" for the job and situationally the best weapon.

And I'd say Rag99 is definitely an easier weapon to make. (nothing to do with gil)

[Jem]

Oh yeah gil aside Ragna is undoubtedly easier to make purely as the trials involved are far easier/less time consuming. On the flipside, if you're going down that route Ukon 99 is quicker to make (although not less man hours) purely because of the Relic Upgrade Goblin cockblocking you with lengthy waiting periods. (At the minute I hate that little bastard as it's delaying my Aegis!)

[pchan]

And yes it is a 'Big Deal' because it changes Ragna from dead last in your calculations to second best behind Koga

No. I mean, you push all the button and try out all the better option you can get on the job, your number represent anything, unless you are comparing what is comparable ? The last calculation in the thread is ha senfire in it and drk doesn't suddenly beat anyone.

Spoiler: show

Now, adding enfire as a buff and checking the effect on DDs (~4 minutes buff, 45s recast, 40 per hit on average)

"strong angon" + "enfire"

pup
DPS : 335.653925
monk
DPS : 466.953089, spharai : 434.521167
glanz
DPS : shijin : 464.899719, ascetic : 466.202516
ryunohige
DPS : 407.298913, relic : 262.368079
war
DPS : 465.518576
conqueror
DPS : 429.769903
koga
DPS : 484.916832
liberator
DPS : 373.176919
ragnarok
DPS : 401.433569

"strong"+"enfire"

pup
DPS : 281.002594
monk
DPS : 391.387971, spharai : 372.366933
glanz
DPS : shijin : 405.893002, ascetic : 437.407140
ryunohige
DPS : 316.148034, relic : 193.549352
war
DPS : 355.974726
conqueror
DPS : 359.870636
koga
DPS : 455.009471
liberator
DPS : 325.218687
ragnarok
DPS : 313.524793

"weak"+"enfire"

pup
DPS : 768.994927
monk
DPS : 762.729080, spharai : 742.265068
glanz
DPS : shijin : 815.775419, ascetic : 756.374135
ryunohige
DPS : 786.148039, relic : 508.623290
war
DPS : 754.476739
conqueror
DPS : 778.565901
koga
DPS : 900.293527
liberator
DPS : 793.225982
ragnarok
DPS : 714.675319

I meann ALL job get better DPS when you add into the spreadsheet, ALL jobs get better if you input ultra rare gear in or best in slot gear or w/e. So all you and tainit did is :

- NOT use the same buff, as I axplained, which you too claimed to be wrong.
- input DIFFERENT gear here and there.

And you find better damage. How is this surprising ? Ragnaraok DRK is always behind MNK and DRK period. You can try your best and find setups where it could be better, but if you are comapring maxed gear drk against average war, it's stupid. The gear I used in the thread are all very good, the I cannot accept the butthurts about not using maxed gear. The only thing arguable is using bufff X or Y. I CHOOSE to use X and Y buff, so stop claiming in every thread that I input fake numbers ? I mean It's not ok to push the soul eater button, with 100% everytime (because you can, yeah ?). Yes souleater is a giant boost, but no you can't use it at will, -120 HP per second dude. I mean what about inputing a pup/drk in the comparison ? Why not assuming that the monk is automatically countering 100% ? Why not assuming that DRG's wyvern actually does something (it doesn't). So stop qqing everythime I do a comparison. You cannot accuse me of privileging H2H damage when SYSTEMATICALLY pup is last in the comparison, and MNK is never first, never second, never third, never third ?

Oh I forgot, yeah, I had one setup where monk is second if you see above, level 82 mob, with double madrigals and enfire... But you get the idea.

[pchan]

Pchan is right about rag<ukkon.

+1, but seriously the bandwagon ragnarok is annoying and my war is only level 49.