Random Question Thread: Fuck it.

[ccl]

Ok, I'd like to see your perfect monk set dps please show me.(really not trolling)

[Jem]

I did use the same buffs. You cannot expect DRK to not use Endark when they are not getting Enfire. Why is DRK restricted from using one of their core abilities that is not in any way detrimental? So on top of Scarlet Delirium and Souleater, they also don't get to use Endark either? This is as well as enforcing a SAM sub. Why not just go whole hog and say they can't use Last Resort either.

And of course I used different gear because the gear you used was woefully incorrect as Bale +2 legs aside, it looks like you're gearing for LR down. This is why we are saying you are falsifying numbers. You are gearing incorrectly and not using the buffs available to DRK. Also, none of the gear I used is any rarer than what you used as you are already using Phorcys and everything else is easy to get or what would be expected of someone to have if they had a 99 Relic.

I am sure if we did some comparisons with MNK in shitty gear and arbitrarily said MNK is not allowed to use Impetus then you would say the comparisons were not fair. And that is what you are effectively doing for DRK.

Of course a job is going to look terrible if you say 'You can't use X, Y and Z native abilities. You can't use your most offensive subjob. You also have to gear sub-optimally'.

EDIT: I also literally said what Byrth did about 99 Rag WAR and 99 Ukon WAR (and have multiple times). And have never tried passing it off otherwise.

[Taint]

No. I mean, you push all the button and try out all the better option you can get on the job, your number represent anything, unless you are comparing what is comparable ? The last calculation in the thread is ha senfire in it and drk doesn't suddenly beat anyone.

Spoiler: show

I meann ALL job get better DPS when you add into the spreadsheet, ALL jobs get better if you input ultra rare gear in or best in slot gear or w/e. So all you and tainit did is :

- NOT use the same buff, as I axplained, which you too claimed to be wrong.
- input DIFFERENT gear here and there.

And you find better damage. How is this surprising ? Ragnaraok DRK is always behind MNK and DRK period. You can try your best and find setups where it could be better, but if you are comapring maxed gear drk against average war, it's stupid. The gear I used in the thread are all very good, the I cannot accept the butthurts about not using maxed gear. The only thing arguable is using bufff X or Y. I CHOOSE to use X and Y buff, so stop claiming in every thread that I input fake numbers ? I mean It's not ok to push the soul eater button, with 100% everytime (because you can, yeah ?). Yes souleater is a giant boost, but no you can't use it at will, -120 HP per second dude. I mean what about inputing a pup/drk in the comparison ? Why not assuming that the monk is automatically countering 100% ? Why not assuming that DRG's wyvern actually does something (it doesn't). So stop qqing everythime I do a comparison. You cannot accuse me of privileging H2H damage when SYSTEMATICALLY pup is last in the comparison, and MNK is never first, never second, never third, never third ?

Oh I forgot, yeah, I had one setup where monk is second if you see above, level 82 mob, with double madrigals and enfire... But you get the idea.

The only extra buff I had was EnDRK, a native job buff. I didn't have Boost anything.

The biggest difference is your DRK is TPing in 87% haste for some odd reason instead of stacking DA,TA,QA. None of the gear I used is hard to get.

Your numbers are wrong and you continue to reference them.

[Nekradarken]

As Pchan only trusts Byrth but not Jem and Taint, I think maybe Bryth could help to verify the number posted by both parties to end the argument? This thread is transforming into a maths thread ;;

[Mercilessturtle]

99 Rag doesn't beat a 99 Ukon for WAR unless you're in one of these two situations:
1) MS is up
2) You're fighting monsters that have -Crit Rate with a ton of Attack buffs.

1. You need to also not start with TP. If you have TP, then doing one ukko for aftermath and then spamming upheaval for the duration of mighty strikes is better.
2. Didn't you only end up with ragna like 3% ahead in that case, while using iffy ukkos gear and giving ragna full use of the acc?

I was responding to "a lot of confused people thinking its good for war too." When it is better then "good" for the job and situationally the best weapon.

Now imagine if that statement had been made in the context of people asking "should I just do rag for my war since I hear its best?". Oh wait, you don't need to imagine, that was the context.

[Jem]

As Pchan only thrusts Byrth but not Jem and Taint, I think maybe Bryth could help to verify the number posted by both parties to end the argument? This thread is transforming into a maths thread ;;

It's less of an argument really and more of I want him to stop spouting off how Ragna is worthless at any given opportunity. Yes I defend it a lot but never before he brings up how bad it is. If he didn't always bring up how bad it supposedly is, I would never defend it.

I don't care about Ragna being the best or worst or whatever weapon (as I've said before, I dislike the weapon now because it's a bandwagon weapon). I do care about misinformation being spread though. Yes Ragna isn't as good as other weapons if you don't use your abilities and also gear stupidly but that much is obvious and true for any weapon/job. What isn't obvious is that when he tells everyone that Ragna is bad, that is the scenario he is referring to it being bad in.

There's nothing worse than looking something up only to go away with incorrect information without even realising it. Which is what people run the risk of doing if the just glance at Pchan's results. There is no asterix saying this DRK was restricted from using x, y and z plus was geared badly, there's only raw numbers.

[Squah]

Anyone else getting FFXI-3113 Protocol Time Out error when trying to log in? I can't get on atm, and couldn't 3 hours ago before my class.

[Byrthnoth]

1. You're going to have a hard time maintaining any Acc (while stacking VIT) in your Upheaval set against Tier 2 Mul mobs. Against ADL what you're describing might be true.

2. Yes, but in practice I've found Ragnarok does substantially better than that. We have an incomplete understanding of FFXI math. All of the math we do on the forums is great and might help us decide what to use and when, but we could be totally wrong. Comparing the math you do with parses of the situation you're math-ing for is going to give you an estimation of how accurate your model is, and when switching from Ukon to Rag seems to increase my damage against Tier 2 Mul mobs then I have to assume something is wrong with the model.

I basically find this:
* In normal pickup alliances with Ukon 99, I parse about 20-30% of alliance damage depending on the other DDs. A typical split would be 25% me, 18% some-other-DD, 12% third-DD, everyone else <10% because they don't know what they're doing.
* If I am in a party like that and parse 3 or so fights, then switch to Ragnarok and do three fights, other people gain on me even against something with a modest crit rate penalty like Morta. If I was 25% vs. 18% before then with Ragnarok it's more 22% vs. 19%, which is pretty much what we'd expect.
* My sword is fucking golden.
* Anyway, against Tier 2 Legion I see the opposite effect. We came out of our Monday run with 5 DDs each at 17-18% total damage (I forgot to use Ragnarok). We came out of our Wednesday run with me at 21% damage using Ragnarok against Tier 2. I'm not going to draw any strong conclusions from a single parse, but it's at least promising enough that I don't think I'm killing the group by not using Ukon.

- Maybe the crit penalty is larger than previously estimated. :: My group has noticed the Paramount Naraka doesn't seem to have as much of a crit penalty as the rest of the mobs, so this could have been causing the non-floored results people (including myself) have reported. This could lead you to not unfloor crit rate even with Ukko's crit rate boost (and Blood Rage) against the other 3 wave 2 mobs, Gallu, and Botulus.
- Maybe level correction works differently than we thought. :: We pretty much just accept how level correction works from lore and there were only modest attempts to confirm it even at 75, let alone now that we're 99. I don't really doubt it because it fits my observations, but it is something to consider.

[Mercilessturtle]

1. That isn't very convincing, you would need an awfully shitty upheaval setup in order for the ODD not to make up the difference between resolution and upheaval wouldn't you?
2. Right, so then you think "why is reality not matching math", and the answer is almost certainly "my crit rate is actually floored on most of those mobs". Which means you are doing: "If I gear for crit damage on ukko, even though I have a 0% crit rate, ragnarok ends up parsing ahead", which is what we looked at before the spreadsheet was fixed, and they came out even when using reasonable WS gear.

[Nekradarken]

It's less of an argument really and more of I want him to stop spouting off how Ragna is worthless at any given opportunity. Yes I defend it a lot but never before he brings up how bad it is. If he didn't always bring up how bad it supposedly is, I would never defend it.

I don't care about Ragna being the best or worst or whatever weapon (as I've said before, I dislike the weapon now because it's a bandwagon weapon). I do care about misinformation being spread though. Yes Ragna isn't as good as other weapons if you don't use your abilities and also gear stupidly but that much is obvious and true for any weapon/job. What isn't obvious is that when he tells everyone that Ragna is bad, that is the scenario he is referring to it being bad in.

There's nothing worse than looking something up only to go away with incorrect information without even realising it. Which is what people run the risk of doing if the just glance at Pchan's results. There is no asterix saying this DRK was restricted from using x, y and z plus was geared badly, there's only raw numbers.

Both theory and practice are important. In Chinese, 纸上谈兵 (discussing war on a paper, or winning war with words) is an idiom used to describe those who are good only at theorizing but lacking practical experience. So personally I trust the numbers posted by you and Taint as both of you refute Pchan's numbers with maths and actual way of playing DRK.

[NynJa]

As Pchan only thrusts Byrth but not Jem and Taint;

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/b...7386942819.jpg

[Marcicus]

outside of botting there's no way to make leveling fishing any less painful is there?

[Buffy]

What's the fix if you update while sandboxed? I did that mini-update a couple days ago without thinking, and now I crash unexpectedly, guessing it is that.

[Buffy]

outside of botting there's no way to make leveling fishing any less painful is there?

Get a netflix account, don't worry about skillups, just target fish that will make you money. An alternate account that you can craft while waiting on fishing messages has been an enormous benefit to me.

[Radec]

outside of botting there's no way to make leveling fishing any less painful is there?

Depends on what you consider the "painful" part.

A) 200 fish/day cap - do crescent fish(won't be caught b/c too small) with a large rod to avoid the daily cap on fish
B) Slow skillup rate - get a skillup ring from the selbina contest, though this might be hard to place in now with the recent popularity of fishing
C) Pressing left and right to catch the fish - yeah, now you're in bot-land

[Maguile]

To land TH on a mob, do you have to actually make contact with your TH gear on, or can you miss and it still be applied?

[pancakesandsex]

To land TH on a mob, do you have to actually make contact with your TH gear on, or can you miss and it still be applied?

You can miss. I have th gear in my /ra macro.

[Maguile]

You can miss. I have th gear in my /ra macro.

Awesome, same here, thats why I asked haha

[pchan]

* In normal pickup alliances with Ukon 99, I parse about 20-30% of alliance damage depending on the other DDs. A typical split would be 25% me, 18% some-other-DD, 12% third-DD, everyone else <10% because they don't know what they're doing..

I think everyone knows that it is better to go with people that don't suck, which is what math is assuming. The only relevant info from a parse is to reverse-math your average WS and melee to check is they match the spreadsheet. For instance the only relevant info from "tier2 mul" is going to be average ukko's damage and average resolution damage. I know myself that if I analyze the parses from ADL my average WS and melee mathc what I expect, however it's only so after 20+ adl ... Also genrally math assumes stupid stuff like "optimal ws frequency" and tp ing 100% of the time when tp are up however it's safe to say that :

in pratice any kind of store tp on gear is worth less even for 2 handed jobs ( for instance "true 6-hit" is something extremely laughable even from the math point of view )
quadruple attack and tripple attack attack gear are vastly overrated : in the math they are assumed to work "on average" obviously, but let's face it ; the guy that WS in a basic str belt is going to outdamage someone that Ws is a QA belt like 9 times out 10 so even though on average QA is better it doesn't reflect your ability to deal maximum damage.
dex gear is uselss, and only str or attack really matters.

Basically what I want to say is that in they end of the day, the guys that wins parse most of the time is the one whose damage has the least variance. So this is something to think about. For instance, for monk I can tell you that AF3+2 body/head monks will nearly always out DD nyzul body/head because on the paper the difference is marginal in the first place and the small crit% and qa/ta% makes the combo have an extreme variance.

[Loziel]

Anyone have a link to the .dat pack that had the no glow avatars, confluxs and maws? Shits killing me.

This! a thousand internets for this please