Adventurers of Eorzea, Arise! (11/08/2012)

[Lucavi]

Seriously? There's a crying thread started on OF?

Good Lord.

[Niiro]

We have no idea what Bahamut's motives were, only what Nael believed his motives were. Nael wanted to murder everything and send it into nothingness iirc, which tbh doesn't seem like something a crazy dragon would want. I mean, yeah, Bahamut fucked up shit, but I felt like Nael himself got his own brain muddled as he interacted more with aether/Dalamud. I'd say Bahamut fed him those lies to simply get himself freed; Nael wanted some fucked up returning everything to the Void shit to be Pure and Bahamut was like nah bro I want to RULE THIS CITY ON ROCK AND ROLL. Since we have no idea what Bahamut actually wanted (aside from being free) we can't really put much stock in Nael's beliefs tbh.

Bahamut is an "elder primal" just like Odin, eh? Interesting-- I didn't think he'd be a normal jackoff. As for tattoonecks being Archons, I'm kinda curious-- don't they all have black neck tattoos and only Louisoix has a white facial tattoo? Ah, I found a picture I took of Urianger and he has a black facial tattoo.

One thing I was relatively confused about is Gaius' airship appears to be heading towards the Battle of Carteneau Flats when he, and the rest of the Empire were in the process of withdrawing from Eorzea (or at least not taking place in Nael's crazy ass schemes)

Nael wanted to annihilate the beastmen and the eikons they worshipped, at least that's what I always assumed he was referring to about "purging" and such. He was so entranced by Dalamud tho that he didn't much care if the rest of Eorzea got blowed the fuck up too, it's not a stretch that the more drunk with power he got thanks to Dalamud (and the less sane) the more willing he was to just nuke anyone/everyone in his way.

I would assume had Nael lived to see Bahamut show up he wouldn't have had any control over him, Nael was the puppet being used so Bahamut could free himself and he was brainwashed into thinking he could accomplish his goals with Dalamud. I don't think Nael ever considered himself to have turned on the Empire, just that he was so convinced that Meteor was the solution to conquering Eorzea.

As for Gaius, considering he's in charge of eventually invading the rest of the continent he probably thought it was a good idea to see what the hell was gonna happen. He wasn't supporting Nael's rogue unit just watching the events unfold.

edit: the "leave something left for me to conquer" line sums up his intentions pretty well

[miokomioko]

The most revealing dialog is the conversation between Nael and Gaius in "Two Vans are Better than One" and the dialog where Gaius spills a bunch of beans to you about Nael's intentions in "Don't Hate the Messenger." Lastly, Gaius spills a few beans about his own intentions towards the end of "Living on a Prayer."

These were all towards the end of the Legacy storyline so I don't think they would have been scrapped or dismissed. They have pretty much all the information there is to be discussed about Meteor/Nael/etc.

[solracht]

@Niiro
Eh, no, Rocl is right. Darnus explicitly says he wishes to see Eorzea turned into the "beautiful" Void. This happens before Bahamut gets into his head in the transmitter mission. Maybe at first he hides his intentions but as his plan is set in motion he's pretty clear about how he wants total annihilation for Eorzea.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Tw...e/Plot_Details
Page isn't loading, but google search shows this below the page:

Nael Van Darnus: Yes, but how much brighter the light that shines forth from the void! Think of it, Gaius! Within that nothingness lies the root of all creation

EDIT: I think the airship scene in the video is just to show that he wanted to see exactly what would happen. His forces have retreated, but he's still watching the landing from afar. The airship is not going towards the battle or anything.

[Niiro]

The dialogue is a bit lofty so it's kind of hard to interpret what he intends to do literally. He could be intent on completely glassing Eorzea or he could just be musing on the potential such massive power would bring.

I just don't think he would be telling Gaius straight up that he plans to destroy everything when he knows that's not what either of them were sent to do. Gaius is just concerned that he doesn't know what kind of power he's messing with and that he won't be able to control it (referencing the previous failed attempts).

[Cichy]

I would think Bahamut's reason for the destruction when he gets out would be to kill those like Louisox who could imprison him again. I assume in ARR he moved onto his master plan.

[Kirin]

As for tattoonecks being Archons, I'm kinda curious-- don't they all have black neck tattoos and only Louisoix has a white facial tattoo? Ah, I found a picture I took of Urianger and he has a black facial tattoo.

Is there anything in lore about there only being 1 Archon for each of the 12? If not then there should naturally be an order of balance, hence Umbral and Astral eras with each of the 12 possibly haveing a light and dark aspect, hence the different face tattoo colors too.

Cause I'm wondering now if the 12 are actually set up to be more like a "system" of sorts, then I wonder if they don't behave more like the Zodiac Stones in Tactics and are simply a sentient means to carry out whatever Astral or Umbral era is next in line. Also wondering if there could be as many as 24 archons at any given time (12 light (Astral) and 12 dark (Umbral)).

[Raldo]

Is there anything in lore about there only being 1 Archon for each of the 12? If not then there should naturally be an order of balance, hence Umbral and Astral eras with each of the 12 possibly haveing a light and dark aspect, hence the different face tattoo colors too.

The only indication of the number of archons that I'm aware of is in the help text for "Faded Page".

A slip of paper covered with arcane symbols and queer handwriting. Used by imperial operatives to identify the handwriting of the Twelve Archons.

Nevermind, I just realized the word "Twelve" is capitalized and is indicating that they are the Archons of the Twelve gods, not that the Archons were twelve in number. Carry on.

[Niiro]

You could interpret it either way tbh.

[Charismatic]

Not sure why you'd think Bahamut was stopped in those 5 years; there is a Bahamut dungeon after all.

I'm tellin' ya, he's just too busy getting loads of dragon sex to go destroy humanity.

Stopped and destroyed/killed/sealed are not the same thing.
It is entirely possible that something was done to stop Bahamut from destroying things but he is now in that dungeon because of whatever happened.

Who the fuck knows? The point is that there are actually probably several sensible reasons for it to still be alive and the planet to not be fucked aside from him just going... "Ok, lol I am done."

[Spira]

isn't the tattoo on the neck just a symbol to show that they're members of the circle of knowing? i don't know much about the archons but i don't think they're all archons. the way the summary was phrased, it seems like only Louisoix is an archon among the Circle.

i don't think there has to be division of archons exclusive to each Twelve god either.. because Louisoix kinda worships Thaliak (since he is the patron god of Sharlayan) but has no problems calling upon Althyk to send people across time, or invoking a prayer that involves all the Twelve.

as for Gaius, it would make sense that hes watching from a far to know whats going on. its just like how the 3 GC leaders and Cid are watching the battle.

lol it would have been so funny if we got to see Gaius' expression when Bahamut appears and he'd be like 'ok shit we need to get away now'..
because u know, Bahamut destroys all the shit, but none of his flare orbs or pieces of dalamud hit anyone important.

[Kachiko]

http://i45.tinypic.com/28kk9yx.jpg

So, they stole from Nanoha now: Befriending by overwhelming power?

[Asai]

Someone a couple pages back posted a picture of nael and then Ulti..Omeg..fuck.. ONE of those. I think Nael's helmet looks more like the bust of bahamut and Gaius's looks more like the weapon's. Would make more sense. That or Odin? /speculaaaaaaaation

[Alkar]

Bahamut has been manipulating Nael way before the transmitter mission imo. It probably goes way back to the incident in the Citadel and his influence simply gets stronger as Dalamud approaches.

[Izzy]

isn't the tattoo on the neck just a symbol to show that they're members of the circle of knowing? i don't know much about the archons but i don't think they're all archons. the way the summary was phrased, it seems like only Louisoix is an archon among the Circle.

He also has a rune on his forehead. I'm not well versed in XIV lore, so I'm not exactly sure what that means either.

[Spider-Dan]

I think Bahamut has been manipulating Nael since the (re)start of the Meteor project. If the Emperor's plan was to conquer Eorzea (as Gaius indicates), why would he sign off on Nael blowing Eorzea up?

I think the "purification of Eorzea" is just the way that Nael's mind interpreted the subconscious commands to summon/release Dalamud.

[Enygma55]

The mental state of Nael Van Darnas was the same as Nolan's Joker. Some people just want to see the world burn.

[Rocl]

I think Bahamut has been manipulating Nael since the (re)start of the Meteor project. If the Emperor's plan was to conquer Eorzea (as Gaius indicates), why would he sign off on Nael blowing Eorzea up?

afaik, the Emperor didn't. iirc Gaius even mentions Nael is deceiving His Radiance about his intentions. Whether that means Nael isn't telling central command he's using Dalamud or he isn't telling them what he plans to do with Dalamud (blow up errything as opposed to just wiping out filthy Eorzeans/Eikons) idk. I'm still against the idea that every Garlean knew that summoning Dalamud would release Bahamut.

Also I'll accept Gaius' overseeing of the battle is to see what would happen, but I wouldn't equate it to the same thing as Kan-O-Seena, Raubahn, Merylwyb and Cid '~' The latter four, well maybe not Cid, I assume are giving some sort of order (probs by linkpearl so they can be up on some mountain cliff and oversee w/o a fancy Airship)

The first time we meet Nael is in the Mini-Ifrit Quest I think? I believe at that point all he cares about is killing Primals and shit, fast-forward to Castrum Novum and now his eyes are glowing and he's all about destroying the entire world in order to remake it. (Maybe not entire world, but definitely Eorzea--but I seem to recall him saying something like the Garlean High Command doesn't have the spine to do what needs to be done or some shit so you can take it either way, but I could be imagining this bit)

imo the timeline is something like:
Papa Cid: yo you know dalamud is a weapon? i bet we can use that shit to throw at our enemies.
Garleans: that's assume let's do it.
Papa Cid: okay but we need to make something to control where it lands
***********
Papa Cid: here is my lunar transmitter let's boot it up
Baby Cid: papa no
BOZJA CITADEL ANNIHILATED BY MYSTERY
**********(The part of Baby Cid will now be played by Cid)
Cid: yo fuck the Empire I'll hang out in Eorzea making mad money off these cavemen w/o airships
[Gaius is in charge of the Imperial host in Ala Mhigo and MorDhona; which are relatively close to each other iirc]
Nael: sup bitches, I got a badass gun-spear-halbred and I'm gonna be your Sephiroth this evening. oh lol also I'm gonna crash a moon into your silly continent =) [this is actually your first meeting, he introduces himself and congratulates you on killing Ifrit and glad to see that there are people fighting the Primals in Eorzea too, but tells you your plan is hopeless unless you accept the Empire's help and become part of it etc. he also mentions the Mezaya prophecy of the 7th Umbral Era here, but doesn't do much with it]
(we kill some bitches, most importantly Garuda)
Nael: yeah you're doing good, helping with my plan and shit. Dalamud fucking loves aether bro Aether powers errything (by this point I think Bahamut is beginning to exert more influence)
(United We Stand)
Nael: stop fucking shit up you bitches I'm gonna do this you know what I WILL BE THE TRANSMITTER FOR HIM and now Nael is a demon---he also goes on about cleansing the world of "man's creeping corruption etc etc and the purity of destruction through His will and what-not" (interesting to note he doesn't seem to believe Bahamut is a primal? or perhaps he may not know for certain that it is Bahamut inside)
blah blah blah
Nael is proud to die at Rivenroad (kind of) so he can be part of Dalamud eternally through its Aether absorbing capabilities n shit (also, again Cid just says while trying to control Dalamud 10 years ago, a giant red beam shot out of it and destroyed Bozja Citadel here before he's like YEAH GET IN MY AIRSHIP)

[Rocl]

http://www.youtube.com/user/RydiaMist

i just got done watching some cutscenes here to help me remember, but i didn't feel like editing my post: Nael doesn't tell you specifically that you're inadvertently helping him, but Louisioix and Cid figure it out. Cid's dialogue about Bozja here implies that the Empire didn't know wtf they were doing, and as far as I can gather Cid just thinks it's rock. (In for a Garuda Awakening)

Meanwhile the whole Rivenroad tomfoolery, Nael prattles on about the Empire scavenging the leavings of false gods (Eikons, I assume) and the worthlessness of a land bereft of the crystal's light (which I don't think we've ever heard before this-- other than crystals are aether made solid or w/e?)-- he also still continually refers to Dalamud as a moon and I can't recall if he uses "he/him" to describe it here but I want to say he does? (worth pointing out too that Dalamud itself is 'male' as Menphina's hound, right? doesn't detract much from the idea of him knowing there's a dude in there though, but I'm still skeptic)

Also if you watch the Nael CS in order you can clearly see his mind gets fuckered as the story progresses-- I don't think he knows that he's going to release an Elder Primal, just that he's gonna fuck up the world hardcore, preferably blowing it all up

[Niiro]

Crystals/shards/clusters are solidified aether and obviously Aetherytes are as well. Those are the common "natural" forms that we see and use.

Then there's ceruleum which is what powers the Empire's technology (it's why they get juggernauts and we get little wooden dingy airships) which is derived from draining aether from natural sources and turning it into energy. It's one of the main reasons the empire is so interested in conquering Eorzea, they recognize how rich with aether it is with all the primals and shit running around (also why they hate the primals both ideologically as false gods and as drains on the aether supply).

Aether-ceruleum is basically a lifestream-mako sort of relationship, it's why Mor Dhona is dead. Additionally I think when they released materia one of the NPCs explains that the reason we can make materia from our gear is because we forge it using crystals (aether) as a catalyst rather than just forging it regularly, therefore our physical equipment has that flowing energy quality within it and why we can turn it into materia (another solid form of aether). It's always mentioned that the Empire was never adept with magic and we can kind of infer that it means they never got the hang of crystal synthesis and the like so they turned toward technology (the fact that Garlean soldiers cast magic like us can be pretty easily explained by their conscription policy in conquered lands).

The important distinction I guess is that when we use crystals and materia and such the aether is conserved, it isn't consumed but rather converted to another medium while the Garleans "destroy" aether when turning it into ceruleum to use as pure energy (again, lifestream-mako almost to a T).