FFXIV story/lore thread

**Obsidian** · 2013-12-17 19:00

I'm two quests in and my mind is already blown by the revelation of Minfilia's foster-mom.

**Obsidian** · 2013-12-18 00:54

So can anyone explain or remind me about what happened to the original Minfilia? I never realized the one we know now is Ascilia, and I have no idea what happened to the original now.

**Gokulo** · 2013-12-18 01:05

What original? Minfilia was always Ascilia afair?

**Obsidian** · 2013-12-18 01:25

There was a Minfilia in 1.0 that couldn't have been Ascilia, unless I'm just really misremembering things.

**Rocl** · 2013-12-18 02:56

Originally Posted by Obsidian

There was a Minfilia in 1.0 that couldn't have been Ascilia, unless I'm just really misremembering things.

You're really misremembering things. Minfilia = Ascilia. It's always been that way.

In 1.0 the Echo wasn't obvious until after you joined the Waking Sands and learned that you had the Echo, so there's a lot of confusion there.

Each original 1.0 city-state story had someone you saw in the Echo and the present who grew up.

I can't remember the kid's name but the green haired kid in Gridania grew up to be the Hermit in the Woods.
Rostshalmann or some shit becamed Rusted Steel from the Marauder quests or w/e
Ascilia became Minfilia

The final one was directly confirmed by Ferne too

**Sho** · 2013-12-18 20:10

Reached the end of the Hildibrand quest.

Mind. Blown.

Thanks Yoshi-P.

Real Spoilers:

Spoiler: show

**Obsidian** · 2013-12-22 03:39

Well, these new main scenario missions were fun and interesting. They confirm that the player does still have the Echo, that Hydaelyn (is that even how you spell it?) is waning and Zodiark waxing. Do we know who Krile and the Paragons are that Minfilia talks about at the end of the last quest? I assume Krile is one of the students of Baldesion but I don't know much about Baldesion itself.

We also gain the name of the faux-hawk'd Ascian (that bears a disturbing resemblance to my own character haha), Nabriales. It's hard to tell whether this guy opposes Elidibus or just doesn't like him. I have a feeling he falls more in Lahabrea's camp than Elidibus's.

Edit: Zodiark, not Zaharak. Too many Zs.

**Rocl** · 2013-12-22 04:34

Zodiark is waxing, not Zaharak lol. Zaharak is Amal'jaa language :<

We knew Narbriales name, as well as Igeyorhm and Loghrif from the end of A Realm Reborn

Students of Baldesions have been the allies of the Scions for some time now, from what we can gather they're the only people from the Sharlayan homeland content to help out the Sharlayans in Eorzea (our Scions/Circle of Knowing). It's a fun easter egg that the leader of the Students of Baldesion is Krile, aka Krile Baldesion from FF5 descendant of Galuf Baldesion

The students of Baldesion have helped the Scions several times throughout the storyline most notably with furnishing the Scions with a faux dark crystal? or something of the sort. They were keen/knowledgeable about helping Thancred recover from possession.
I also believe G'rahaba Tia is a Student of Baldesion as well, but I haven't rewatched the CS enough times to be certain.

Spoiler: show

Elidibus was the mage in Final Fantasy Tactics who summoned Zodiark (his first appearance in FF iirc) so that's another fun "easter egg"

The Paragons = The Ascians. Different name for the same people. The Paragons are those people who taught the Beast Tribes to summon Primals, we can surmise the Ascians did so cloaked in a fashion we're accustomed to now (in a mortal form) since the Ascian we see in 1.0 that isn't possessing someone (to our knowledge) scares the fuck out of everyone.

The dark/warrior Ascians seem to not like Elidibus probably because he seems to be more powerful / in direct contact with Zodiark and isn't keen on violence itself and seems to want to turn the Scions to the side of Zodiark? (Interesting that this relationship is reminiscent of the White Raven and Black Wolf with the Garlean Emperor at the end of 1.0)

In addition the Ascians seem to describe Umbral Eras as "Ardors" I suspect we'll learn more about it later.

I'm beginning to wonder if the Ascians = Allagans things holds any water whatsoever. Mayhaps Ascians simply helped the Allagans much the way they seemed to be enjoying helping the Empire in this modern Eorzea. After all, if Acheron is an augmented Allagan...

**Obsidian** · 2013-12-22 05:11

I thought 'Tia was just a Sharlayan, but I've only watched the cutscene twice so don't quote me on that. If he were actually from Baldesion though his timing would be pretty coincidental given the implied state of Baldesion at the end of the 2.1 missions.

I feel like the alternate name of Paragon sort of implies what the Ascian's might be; that is, they are the pinnacle/perfection of a race. Given the apparent (extreme) length of their lives and the difficulty we have ending them, I almost wonder if they're less a physical thing and more a kind of consciousness. But then, how does Urianger see Elidibus leave the Waking Sands? One then has to wonder why they worship the antithesis of Hydaelyn, and what their connection to those Dark crystals really is, and what the reason is for Hydaelyn's decay. Are Hydaelyn and Zodiark just uber-tier Primals, or the things from which all Primals come from (they're shown to be giant crystals, and we know that Primals require obscene quantities of crystals/aether)? For that matter, how do The Twelve play into all this, if at all? Gaius seemed to be implying that they're nothing more than Primals, but if that's what they are then why don't we summon them? How did Hydaelyn even temper/"touch"/whatever the player character in the first place?

When Elidibus says "all that was, shall be again" I think he's referring to the state of the world when the Ascians were able to walk it freely. That is to say, I think the Ascians can only really exist physically (apparent exceptions like Edilibus notwithstanding, for now) when some condition is met, and that condition is related to Zodiark, somehow. I find it really interesting that the Eras are qualified with Astral and Umbral. Why make this distinction? Umbra implies dark/shade/shadow, Ascians worship a dark version of Hydaelyn, they require dark crystals to possess people. Could their physical existence be linked to the darkness Zodiark is likely to bring? Is that why it's an Umbral era? Calling it an Ardor is confusing me a bit but hopefully we learn a bit more about why Elidibus refers to the Calamity that way in the not too distant future.

It's probable that most of the above is entirely nonsense. I don't know a whole lot about older FF games and the clues they may provide. I'm just trying to kill time until I can take my meds and go to bed and it's 5AM here.

**Gokulo** · 2013-12-22 06:12

Wasn't it said that they're called Astral and Umbral because Astral eras were times of prosperity while Umbral were usually dark/times of strife or something like that?

**Spira** · 2013-12-26 13:34

thats what the people call it.. i guess the ascians have their own terminology.

the way they're setting it up with the ascians and the fact that elidibus actually uses honorific terms to describe hydaelyn.. it seems to suggest that there's an overarching 2 god system. Hydaelyn, the mother crystal, and Zodiark, the dark one (who is probably the dark crystal we've seen before)..

while it does make things a lot simpler, one cant help but feel it shits all over the whole Twelve mythology.

**Rocl** · 2013-12-26 21:46

considering the rather dubious status of the Twelve's godhood I don't think it does that at all

we've been hinted/told since 1.0 that the Twelve are simply our version of Primals and we've been told several times they aren't gods

**Tidane** · 2014-01-01 12:33

Originally Posted by Obsidian

But then, how does Urianger see Elidibus leave the Waking Sands?

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but hasn't Urianger implied that he does have the Echo, which would allow him to see Elidibus? Perhaps I misinterpreted and he's able to see for some other reason. He has always been a bit strange.

Originally Posted by Obsidian

Are Hydaelyn and Zodiark just uber-tier Primals...

I suspect it will be whatever works for whatever story the team wants to tell, but if we were to base things off Final Fantasy historically (and storytelling in general), a balance between light and darkness is a key theme. A light shines on a crystal and you have a lit crystal with a shadow cast. The way I viewed the Ascians was that their lack of a shadow was symbolic, showing that they live in the darkness of the crystal (Zodiark). Without a light, you have no shadow.

From what we've been shown, it appears as though Hydaelyn is a giant crystal. If we assume the crystal is actually a physical entity (as far as I'm aware,the only time we've seen the crystal is in dreamland), it differentiates Hydaelyn form the primals. The primals are born of aether, but are only physical through the use of magic. While the term summoning has been used, I think that the implication of prior existence should be removed. The walkaround Yoshi gave us about why Good King Moggle Mog XII is a primal but not a primal is what I believe should be the assumption about all primals (including the Twelve). The moogles certainly worshipped the King, although the CSs tried to imply that they didn't, but through force of will they were able to animate a myth. The only thing we know about the Twelve is that they're gods, in the same way that the other primals are gods.

So if we put Hydaelyn in one category and the summoned (Primals, Twelve, King Moogle) in another, Zodiark should be in Hydaelyn's category. Personally, I like the idea that there is only one crystal (the mothercrystal) and Hydaelyn and Zodiark are battling for control of that single entity. Two god-like beings competing for control of a single body. While Hydaelyn's power is waning, Zodiark (and the Ascians) are growing more powerful. It sets up the eternal struggle between light and dark and gives a reason why the Ascians aren't so easily defeated. Given that nothing leaves a body when we kill it anyway, it is hard to tell, but perhaps the Ascians are just manifestations of Zodiark's will in the same way that Primals/Twelve/King are manifestations of the will of those that called out to them. Creatures of aether being resummoned even when we're victorious in battle. If Zodiark has the ability to manifest his will that way, it only reasons that his opposite would have similar abilities.

Or something like that, anyway. I haven't watched all the cutscenes multiple times, so it is completely possible that I missed something that shits all over these thoughts.

**Kelenae** · 2014-01-01 13:09

Lances of light herald the dawn
Beckoning shadows deeper still
Splendor dances with shades
Unsheathed, a rime kissed blade
Spills crimson o'er fields of white

From the journal of Louisoix Leveillleur

Yoshi posted this wonder what it means... more stuff from ishgard?

**Rocl** · 2014-01-01 13:13

It's probably pointing out that our next turns of the Coil will be in Coerthas' Boulder Downs. (Red magitek crystals in snow)

A rime-kissed blade could be the snow covered fragment of Dalamud lodged in the Nail now while the first bit is about the eternal Ascian/Scion conflict '='

**Lokus** · 2014-01-02 03:41

This is the only thread that I found that I felt would be appropriate but was the Castrum that's in Coerthas ever mentioned in the storyline? I just recently noticed it when I was running around.

I was thinking it might just be Castrum Marinum but it's way too far not to mention the elevation is completely off.

**Gokulo** · 2014-01-02 10:38

That's not Castrum I believe. Part of Ishgard or something?

**Rocl** · 2014-01-02 11:38

That is definitely an Imperial Castrum as it looks exactly like Castrum Marinum. Whether it IS Marinum or not is debatable, and no it's not addressed by any NPCs. Another notable possibility would be Centri.

Given the location, SW of Ishgard there's Centri, Meridanium, and Marinum but it looks most like Marinum you're right.

I personally assume it's a 'new' Castrum or at least one we haven't discussed but that'd be really weird that it wasn't included in Operation Archon despite being "in Coerthas" (if it isn't one of the above)

[which I guess lends more credence to it being one of the above tbh]

**Evane** · 2014-01-03 04:32

Spoiler: show

Going by the naming convection and this castrum's location, I think it's a safe bet to say that it is in fact Marinum.

**Viena** · 2014-01-03 05:03

I humbly disagree with that view, basically because it would make for a way too abrupt landscape and climate change. So unless one of the tall and snowy points of Coerthas happens to simultaneously be at sea level on top of warm rocky terrain it shouldn't be the same imperial fortification, even if it has the same design.

Usually there's supposed to be large distances between areas' zonelines, so I'm assuming there's a large gap of unexplorable land between Coerthas and Western Thanalan for the landscape to make some sense.

Thread: FFXIV story/lore thread

Thread Tools

Latest Threads

Up & Coming Threads

Hottest Threads